Re: [Txauth] Txauth Digest, Vol 9, Issue 48
Fabien Imbault <fabien.imbault@gmail.com> Wed, 20 May 2020 14:10 UTC
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From: Fabien Imbault <fabien.imbault@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 16:10:03 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Txauth] Txauth Digest, Vol 9, Issue 48
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Hi Yaron, I guess they get for me into the category "wouldn't object", anyway you'll have answers from other people to discriminate. I wish you all a good day. Fabien > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com> > To: Fabien Imbault <fabien.imbault@gmail.com>, <txauth@ietf.org> > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 17:01:24 +0300 > Subject: Re: [Txauth] Txauth Digest, Vol 9, Issue 46 > > Hi Fabien, > > > > Thank you for the detailed response. I’m struggling though with those > where you “don’t have a strong opinion”. Should we count them as “wouldn’t > object” or are they really “object” and you don’t have a good explanation – > which is totally fine. > > > > Regards, > > Yaron > > > > *From: *Txauth <txauth-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Fabien Imbault < > fabien.imbault@gmail.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, May 20, 2020 at 15:26 > *To: *<txauth@ietf.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Txauth] Txauth Digest, Vol 9, Issue 46 > > > > Thanks Yaron, sorry I had missed that. That's great. > > So here I go, of course that's a personal view and explanations should be > taken as constructive criticisms. > > > > Wouldn’t Object: > > * TxAuth Transmission of Authority -> seems good to me, even if Tx still makes me think more of transaction. The easiest to remember for me. > > * XAuthZ eXtensible authoriZation protocol -> I like that AuthZ makes the scope clearer. Maybe a bit hard to pronounce and may look very nerdy to the average user (but I think it's still ok). > > * GranPro GRAnt Negotiation Protocol -> seems pretty clear > > Object: > > * TXAuth Testable eXtensible Authorization (doesn't seem production ready) > > * TXAuth Truly eXtensible Authorization (don't know what would be a not truly extensible auth) > > * RefAuthZ Refactored Authorization Protocol (same idea, refactored compared to what) > > * ReAuthZ Reimagined Authorization Protocol (same idea) > > * AAuthZ Alternative Authorization Protocol (same idea) > > * PAuthZ Protocol for Authorization (too broad) > > * TINOA This Is Not OAuth (so what?) > > * DIYAuthZ Do-It-Yourself Authorization Protocol (people don't want DIY auth I think, they want secure stuff) > > * IDPAuthZ Intent Driven Protocol for Authorization (too close to IDentity Provider) > > For the rest, I don't have strong opinions, it's just that they don't resonate well to me, and I struggle to remember them. > > Fabien > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com> > To: Fabien Imbault <fabien.imbault@gmail.com <fabien.imbault@gmail..com>>, > <txauth@ietf.org> > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 14:54:35 +0300 > Subject: Re: [Txauth] Txauth Digest, Vol 9, Issue 44 > > Hi Fabien, > > > > Please see my email from yesterday for method and calendar. > > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/txauth/sxMA2D3xkluRwJJGWcPOck7HlT8/ > > > > Thanks, > > Yaron > > > > *From: *Txauth <txauth-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Fabien Imbault < > fabien.imbault@gmail.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, May 20, 2020 at 13:38 > *To: *<txauth@ietf.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Txauth] Txauth Digest, Vol 9, Issue 44 > > > > Hi, > > > > Well, I guess the issue with the poll illustrates quite clearly why we > need authorization in systems. > > > > I'm not sure we really need more names right now, the brainstorming > produced quite a large set of possibilities (which Nigel evaluated based on > some common requirements), from which we need to choose. > > My personal opinion is that we need to keep things simple: find a way to > decide on a name and start focusing on the specification itself. > > > > Let's see what co-chairs propose in terms of method and calendar. > > > > Fabien > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Nigel Hamilton <nige@123.do> > To: txauth@ietf.org > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 06:20:40 +0100 > Subject: [Txauth] Name Game (contd) > > Hi, > > > > It's a bit disappointing that the voting went awry. It's normal to go > through a few iterations however. > > > > I personally like WRAC - as it is distinctive and the expanded acronym > helps to explain what it does. I just want to flag up, however, that there > are some potential trademark problems with it. If it had been submitted > prior to the first poll - it would have appeared in the lower list and not > made the first voting round. > > > > Cheers > > > > Nige > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: David Skaife <blue.ringed.octopus.guy@gmail.com> > To: Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com> > Cc: "txauth@ietf.org" <txauth@ietf.org> > Bcc: > Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 10:50:19 +0100 > Subject: Re: [Txauth] Call for WG name preferences > > Hi Yaron, > > > > I think overall the proposed approach is sensible, however, I'm not sure > it's a good idea to allow new names to be suggested at the same time as > when people are stating which names they would and wouldn't object to. It's > going to get very chaotic if new names are being suggested at the same time > as this consensus check. Also, what happens if someone suggests a new name > a few hours before the deadline giving very little time for people to > confirm whether they object to it or not? > > > Would it not be more sensible to draw a line under new name suggestions > before we then state our preferences? > > > Many thanks, > > David Skaife > > > > On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 9:34 PM Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi! > > After reviewing the community feedback and discussions with the AD, we’d > like to again launch a process to elicit feedback on naming. Our proposal > is below. We’d appreciate any clarifying questions, proposed improvements > or objections by 0800 UTC, Thursday, May 21st . > > Thanks, > Yaron and Dick > > PS, I’m sharing the load with Dick and taking point on this consensus call > -- Yaron > > ---- > > Before we submit the draft charter [1] to the IESG, we wanted to explore > the name of the group. During the chartering discussions, some people > objected to the BoF name being the WG name. We’d like to get consensus on > what the WG name should be. Our first attempt to elicit input [2] wasn’t > successful, and this is a second attempt to get consensus from the > community. > > To get to consensus, we want to gather preferences on the currently known > WG name candidates. Our goal is not to select the most popular name -- it > is to select a name everyone can live with and ensure that we understand > and weigh any objections there might be with that choice. To that end, > we’d like to elicit your name preferences in the following way: > > (1) In previous discussions, the following candidate names have been > voiced (we have listed only these names that received at least one vote > previously): > > * AAuthZ Alternative Authorization Protocol (AAuthZ) > * AZARP AuthoriZed Access to Resources Protocol > * AZARAP AuthoriZation And Resource Access Protocol > * BeBAuthZ Back-end Based Authorization Protocol > * BYOAuthZ Build-Your-Own Authorization Protocol > * CPAAP Comprehensive Privileged Authentication Authorization Protocol > * DAZARAP Delegated AuthoriZation And Resource Access Protocol > * DIYAuthZ Do-It-Yourself Authorization Protocol > * GNAP Grant Negotiation and Authorization Protocol > * GranPro GRAnt Negotiation Protocol > * IDPAuthZ Intent Driven Protocol for Authorization > * NIRAD Negotiation of Intent Registration and Authority Delegation > * PAuthZ Protocol for Authorization > * RefAuthZ Refactored Authorization Protocol > * ReAuthZ Reimagined Authorization Protocol > * TIAAP Tokenized Identity and Access Protocol > * TIDEAuth Trust via Intent Driven Extension Auth > * TIDYAuth Trust via Intent Driven Yield Auth > * TIEAuth Trust via Intent Extension Auth > * TINOA This Is Not OAuth > * TXAuth Testable eXtensible Authorization > * TxAuth Transmission of Authority > * TXAuth Truly eXtensible Authorization > * XAuthZ eXtensible authoriZation protocol > > We would ask that you consider these names, and respond to the list with > your selection of the following two categories: > > * “Wouldn’t Object” -- this is not necessarily your preferred name, but > you would be comfortable with it being the name of the WG (choose as many > names as you want) > * “Object” -- you would be uncomfortable with the WG being named in this > way (choose as many names as you want; please provide an explanation) > > (2) If your preferred name isn’t in the list per (1), you can send a note > to the mailing list stating that you’d like the WG to consider a new name. > Please ensure the name adheres to the previously discussed naming criteria > at [3]. We still request that you provide your other preferences and > objections. > > (3) If you previously sent in your preferences, but a new name suggestion > or someone’s objection changed your mind, then send another message to the > mailing list with your revised preferences. For the purposes of consensus, > we’ll assume that everyone who hasn’t commented on a new name introduced > per (2) “objects” to it (i.e., we want to hear positive confirmation of > preference on new names). > > (4) Please provide your input by 0800 UTC June 4, 2020. > > With that input, our plan is to assess rough consensus in the following > way: > > (a) See if there is consensus for a name identified given the “wouldn’t > object to being the WG name” preference and the level of “would object” > feedback > > (b) If there isn’t clear consensus with (a), but a significantly reduced > set of candidates around which there is enthusiasm, the chairs will share > the results and request feedback > > (c) If rough consensus appears to be reached through steps (a) – (b), > revisit the objections to this candidate name, elicit additional objections > and see if they change the consensus. > > Regards, > Yaron and Dick > > [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-txauth/ > [2] > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/txauth/GnTUvD191MGMF63Oe3VTqkYi0Wg/ > [3] > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/txauth/lAe06IW4nihUzyTkWVDcq8rnUa8/ > > > -- > Txauth mailing list > Txauth@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/txauth > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com> > To: David Skaife <blue.ringed.octopus.guy@gmail.com> > Cc: "txauth@ietf.org" <txauth@ietf.org> > Bcc: > Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 12:57:07 +0300 > Subject: Re: [Txauth] Call for WG name preferences > > Maybe, but the proposal makes it clear that the default for new names is > that we consider everyone to “object” to them unless explicitly told > otherwise.. So people will understand that the only way for a name to have > a chance is to propose it early in the game.. > > > > Thanks, > > Yaron > > > > *From: *David Skaife <blue.ringed.octopus.guy@gmail.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, May 20, 2020 at 12:50 > *To: *Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com> > *Cc: *"txauth@ietf.org" <txauth@ietf.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Txauth] Call for WG name preferences > > > > Hi Yaron, > > > > I think overall the proposed approach is sensible, however, I'm not sure > it's a good idea to allow new names to be suggested at the same time as > when people are stating which names they would and wouldn't object to. It's > going to get very chaotic if new names are being suggested at the same time > as this consensus check.. Also, what happens if someone suggests a new name > a few hours before the deadline giving very little time for people to > confirm whether they object to it or not? > > > Would it not be more sensible to draw a line under new name suggestions > before we then state our preferences? > > > Many thanks, > > David Skaife > > > > On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 9:34 PM Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi! > > After reviewing the community feedback and discussions with the AD, we’d > like to again launch a process to elicit feedback on naming. Our proposal > is below. We’d appreciate any clarifying questions, proposed improvements > or objections by 0800 UTC, Thursday, May 21st . > > Thanks, > Yaron and Dick > > PS, I’m sharing the load with Dick and taking point on this consensus call > -- Yaron > > ---- > > Before we submit the draft charter [1] to the IESG, we wanted to explore > the name of the group. During the chartering discussions, some people > objected to the BoF name being the WG name. We’d like to get consensus on > what the WG name should be. Our first attempt to elicit input [2] wasn’t > successful, and this is a second attempt to get consensus from the > community. > > To get to consensus, we want to gather preferences on the currently known > WG name candidates. Our goal is not to select the most popular name -- it > is to select a name everyone can live with and ensure that we understand > and weigh any objections there might be with that choice.. To that end, > we’d like to elicit your name preferences in the following way: > > (1) In previous discussions, the following candidate names have been > voiced (we have listed only these names that received at least one vote > previously): > > * AAuthZ Alternative Authorization Protocol (AAuthZ) > * AZARP AuthoriZed Access to Resources Protocol > * AZARAP AuthoriZation And Resource Access Protocol > * BeBAuthZ Back-end Based Authorization Protocol > * BYOAuthZ Build-Your-Own Authorization Protocol > * CPAAP Comprehensive Privileged Authentication Authorization Protocol > * DAZARAP Delegated AuthoriZation And Resource Access Protocol > * DIYAuthZ Do-It-Yourself Authorization Protocol > * GNAP Grant Negotiation and Authorization Protocol > * GranPro GRAnt Negotiation Protocol > * IDPAuthZ Intent Driven Protocol for Authorization > * NIRAD Negotiation of Intent Registration and Authority Delegation > * PAuthZ Protocol for Authorization > * RefAuthZ Refactored Authorization Protocol > * ReAuthZ Reimagined Authorization Protocol > * TIAAP Tokenized Identity and Access Protocol > * TIDEAuth Trust via Intent Driven Extension Auth > * TIDYAuth Trust via Intent Driven Yield Auth > * TIEAuth Trust via Intent Extension Auth > * TINOA This Is Not OAuth > * TXAuth Testable eXtensible Authorization > * TxAuth Transmission of Authority > * TXAuth Truly eXtensible Authorization > * XAuthZ eXtensible authoriZation protocol > > We would ask that you consider these names, and respond to the list with > your selection of the following two categories: > > * “Wouldn’t Object” -- this is not necessarily your preferred name, but > you would be comfortable with it being the name of the WG (choose as many > names as you want) > * “Object” -- you would be uncomfortable with the WG being named in this > way (choose as many names as you want; please provide an explanation) > > (2) If your preferred name isn’t in the list per (1), you can send a note > to the mailing list stating that you’d like the WG to consider a new name. > Please ensure the name adheres to the previously discussed naming criteria > at [3]. We still request that you provide your other preferences and > objections. > > (3) If you previously sent in your preferences, but a new name suggestion > or someone’s objection changed your mind, then send another message to the > mailing list with your revised preferences. For the purposes of consensus, > we’ll assume that everyone who hasn’t commented on a new name introduced > per (2) “objects” to it (i.e., we want to hear positive confirmation of > preference on new names). > > (4) Please provide your input by 0800 UTC June 4, 2020. > > With that input, our plan is to assess rough consensus in the following > way: > > (a) See if there is consensus for a name identified given the “wouldn’t > object to being the WG name” preference and the level of “would object” > feedback > > (b) If there isn’t clear consensus with (a), but a significantly reduced > set of candidates around which there is enthusiasm, the chairs will share > the results and request feedback > > (c) If rough consensus appears to be reached through steps (a) – (b), > revisit the objections to this candidate name, elicit additional objections > and see if they change the consensus. > > Regards, > Yaron and Dick > > [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-txauth/ > [2] > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/txauth/GnTUvD191MGMF63Oe3VTqkYi0Wg/ > [3] > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/txauth/lAe06IW4nihUzyTkWVDcq8rnUa8/ > <https://mailarchive..ietf.org/arch/msg/txauth/lAe06IW4nihUzyTkWVDcq8rnUa8/> > > > -- > Txauth mailing list > Txauth@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/txauth > > Txauth mailing list > Txauth@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/txauth > > -- Txauth mailing list Txauth@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/txauth > > Txauth mailing list > Txauth@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/txauth > > -- Txauth mailing list Txauth@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/txauth > Txauth mailing list > Txauth@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/txauth >
- Re: [Txauth] Txauth Digest, Vol 9, Issue 48 Fabien Imbault