Re: [Txauth] Txauth Digest, Vol 9, Issue 46
Fabien Imbault <fabien.imbault@gmail.com> Wed, 20 May 2020 12:26 UTC
Return-Path: <fabien.imbault@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: txauth@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: txauth@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50FC33A092F for <txauth@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 May 2020 05:26:01 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fiu0Tgkop7oB for <txauth@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 May 2020 05:25:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ot1-x32f.google.com (mail-ot1-x32f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 005F23A092C for <txauth@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 May 2020 05:25:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ot1-x32f.google.com with SMTP id g25so2221571otp.13 for <txauth@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 May 2020 05:25:54 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=SFbNMRtV0oe0AssbAEztk1q39Do6FWiYkp0k8sel9Cs=; b=fvffzg6hxpg/NRooXFUY4X169Ea3RnpT4i72u7U7928Us8I84BgHay47/LeGT/ZnTu KT4j+Mk8A/40xWkwVjAsQeOtSu49D2/q+3/jc4SvvTqtyEJzkrihlj6CmkXeN0AfZsxV abFbwmixuXWBJVsfinfMGVs/OWHcHGl8ytSPt6TQTZyuZPwEx3O9OzMiT91FiCXB8o8s egVZNb04SookNY+bVZnIfr0EYlpROZBwX5nT+ipJakgwZhtjFeVtODqW5xyzqDpuXZjx 2CGDoNrtHtL/BdXWF8pSezaQglkfOOP5pyJSbVpGQVpQpgb23yc3Wb5lii+3dZS5Ro8+ 8NTA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=SFbNMRtV0oe0AssbAEztk1q39Do6FWiYkp0k8sel9Cs=; b=QAV61McKlJnpCpRhRCajM+rXpqq53/eBimaxbO+yN4dqyUt5OUvPlmlNu/Dx9JHeAR t9QdlhbiZfcXClnMo6+flc9bIihlWslnOZg031uiA7k8ncKaTD9wzlSEHAwWjtoyvOom QedWVPGua8LJRb0xacXL81eAsZGebhVO3nITkhJpnEtwXQP3bC+YS9vxJUtNp70UUdXh xa8ogWeoNG2YHnymgNqr0PsAZbvpF8WyNfX/wqHCmQ75T6HUYfrs9u/rZArudpjWCEWe 82caZqOmQn05yxXK9odQ0By41/1PuUh/xzP3dgINSZtWIi5NMFSP95Xyhqw2Ul5fadvg pDPg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530BUl42w8MC/sKUKNEVw9L52RTVSu+/XAkLUbRAQpmDht33yS+6 SH/jDUtHnO9Z0pQ2EAhVPw/t4g/CWUfCvWohcSg1FFIDyHc=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxe+ZxEQMqv7A4EPR12AeFOnXxAJUmpebQW35L7Mg1A0A0WvNbZpsk8Sp8jBtv1vT7epsKyLALaxHlVuM8+zuc=
X-Received: by 2002:a9d:6282:: with SMTP id x2mr3118584otk.52.1589977554000; Wed, 20 May 2020 05:25:54 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <mailman.532.1589975683.8861.txauth@ietf.org>
In-Reply-To: <mailman.532.1589975683.8861.txauth@ietf.org>
From: Fabien Imbault <fabien.imbault@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 14:25:43 +0200
Message-ID: <CAM8feuQzVjd2pii=e1Vxp0uHVsRVbuS+cJn_3ML8n-XLROKCNw@mail.gmail.com>
To: txauth@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004ea14605a6137f9d"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/txauth/JaQhvjHMeIaY1My8TCu3Iaq6a9Y>
Subject: Re: [Txauth] Txauth Digest, Vol 9, Issue 46
X-BeenThere: txauth@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <txauth.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/txauth>, <mailto:txauth-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/txauth/>
List-Post: <mailto:txauth@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:txauth-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/txauth>, <mailto:txauth-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 12:26:02 -0000
Thanks Yaron, sorry I had missed that. That's great. So here I go, of course that's a personal view and explanations should be taken as constructive criticisms. Wouldn’t Object: * TxAuth Transmission of Authority -> seems good to me, even if Tx still makes me think more of transaction. The easiest to remember for me. * XAuthZ eXtensible authoriZation protocol -> I like that AuthZ makes the scope clearer. Maybe a bit hard to pronounce and may look very nerdy to the average user (but I think it's still ok). * GranPro GRAnt Negotiation Protocol -> seems pretty clear Object: * TXAuth Testable eXtensible Authorization (doesn't seem production ready) * TXAuth Truly eXtensible Authorization (don't know what would be a not truly extensible auth) * RefAuthZ Refactored Authorization Protocol (same idea, refactored compared to what) * ReAuthZ Reimagined Authorization Protocol (same idea) * AAuthZ Alternative Authorization Protocol (same idea) * PAuthZ Protocol for Authorization (too broad) * TINOA This Is Not OAuth (so what?) * DIYAuthZ Do-It-Yourself Authorization Protocol (people don't want DIY auth I think, they want secure stuff) * IDPAuthZ Intent Driven Protocol for Authorization (too close to IDentity Provider) For the rest, I don't have strong opinions, it's just that they don't resonate well to me, and I struggle to remember them. Fabien > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com> > To: Fabien Imbault <fabien.imbault@gmail.com>, <txauth@ietf.org> > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 14:54:35 +0300 > Subject: Re: [Txauth] Txauth Digest, Vol 9, Issue 44 > > Hi Fabien, > > > > Please see my email from yesterday for method and calendar. > > > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/txauth/sxMA2D3xkluRwJJGWcPOck7HlT8/ > > > > Thanks, > > Yaron > > > > *From: *Txauth <txauth-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Fabien Imbault < > fabien.imbault@gmail.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, May 20, 2020 at 13:38 > *To: *<txauth@ietf.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Txauth] Txauth Digest, Vol 9, Issue 44 > > > > Hi, > > > > Well, I guess the issue with the poll illustrates quite clearly why we > need authorization in systems. > > > > I'm not sure we really need more names right now, the brainstorming > produced quite a large set of possibilities (which Nigel evaluated based on > some common requirements), from which we need to choose. > > My personal opinion is that we need to keep things simple: find a way to > decide on a name and start focusing on the specification itself. > > > > Let's see what co-chairs propose in terms of method and calendar. > > > > Fabien > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Nigel Hamilton <nige@123.do> > To: txauth@ietf.org > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 06:20:40 +0100 > Subject: [Txauth] Name Game (contd) > > Hi, > > > > It's a bit disappointing that the voting went awry. It's normal to go > through a few iterations however. > > > > I personally like WRAC - as it is distinctive and the expanded acronym > helps to explain what it does. I just want to flag up, however, that there > are some potential trademark problems with it. If it had been submitted > prior to the first poll - it would have appeared in the lower list and not > made the first voting round. > > > > Cheers > > > > Nige > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: David Skaife <blue.ringed.octopus.guy@gmail.com> > To: Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com> > Cc: "txauth@ietf.org" <txauth@ietf.org> > Bcc: > Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 10:50:19 +0100 > Subject: Re: [Txauth] Call for WG name preferences > > Hi Yaron, > > > > I think overall the proposed approach is sensible, however, I'm not sure > it's a good idea to allow new names to be suggested at the same time as > when people are stating which names they would and wouldn't object to. It's > going to get very chaotic if new names are being suggested at the same time > as this consensus check. Also, what happens if someone suggests a new name > a few hours before the deadline giving very little time for people to > confirm whether they object to it or not? > > > Would it not be more sensible to draw a line under new name suggestions > before we then state our preferences? > > > Many thanks, > > David Skaife > > > > On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 9:34 PM Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi! > > After reviewing the community feedback and discussions with the AD, we’d > like to again launch a process to elicit feedback on naming. Our proposal > is below. We’d appreciate any clarifying questions, proposed improvements > or objections by 0800 UTC, Thursday, May 21st . > > Thanks, > Yaron and Dick > > PS, I’m sharing the load with Dick and taking point on this consensus call > -- Yaron > > ---- > > Before we submit the draft charter [1] to the IESG, we wanted to explore > the name of the group. During the chartering discussions, some people > objected to the BoF name being the WG name. We’d like to get consensus on > what the WG name should be. Our first attempt to elicit input [2] wasn’t > successful, and this is a second attempt to get consensus from the > community. > > To get to consensus, we want to gather preferences on the currently known > WG name candidates. Our goal is not to select the most popular name -- it > is to select a name everyone can live with and ensure that we understand > and weigh any objections there might be with that choice. To that end, > we’d like to elicit your name preferences in the following way: > > (1) In previous discussions, the following candidate names have been > voiced (we have listed only these names that received at least one vote > previously): > > * AAuthZ Alternative Authorization Protocol (AAuthZ) > * AZARP AuthoriZed Access to Resources Protocol > * AZARAP AuthoriZation And Resource Access Protocol > * BeBAuthZ Back-end Based Authorization Protocol > * BYOAuthZ Build-Your-Own Authorization Protocol > * CPAAP Comprehensive Privileged Authentication Authorization Protocol > * DAZARAP Delegated AuthoriZation And Resource Access Protocol > * DIYAuthZ Do-It-Yourself Authorization Protocol > * GNAP Grant Negotiation and Authorization Protocol > * GranPro GRAnt Negotiation Protocol > * IDPAuthZ Intent Driven Protocol for Authorization > * NIRAD Negotiation of Intent Registration and Authority Delegation > * PAuthZ Protocol for Authorization > * RefAuthZ Refactored Authorization Protocol > * ReAuthZ Reimagined Authorization Protocol > * TIAAP Tokenized Identity and Access Protocol > * TIDEAuth Trust via Intent Driven Extension Auth > * TIDYAuth Trust via Intent Driven Yield Auth > * TIEAuth Trust via Intent Extension Auth > * TINOA This Is Not OAuth > * TXAuth Testable eXtensible Authorization > * TxAuth Transmission of Authority > * TXAuth Truly eXtensible Authorization > * XAuthZ eXtensible authoriZation protocol > > We would ask that you consider these names, and respond to the list with > your selection of the following two categories: > > * “Wouldn’t Object” -- this is not necessarily your preferred name, but > you would be comfortable with it being the name of the WG (choose as many > names as you want) > * “Object” -- you would be uncomfortable with the WG being named in this > way (choose as many names as you want; please provide an explanation) > > (2) If your preferred name isn’t in the list per (1), you can send a note > to the mailing list stating that you’d like the WG to consider a new name. > Please ensure the name adheres to the previously discussed naming criteria > at [3]. We still request that you provide your other preferences and > objections. > > (3) If you previously sent in your preferences, but a new name suggestion > or someone’s objection changed your mind, then send another message to the > mailing list with your revised preferences. For the purposes of consensus, > we’ll assume that everyone who hasn’t commented on a new name introduced > per (2) “objects” to it (i.e., we want to hear positive confirmation of > preference on new names). > > (4) Please provide your input by 0800 UTC June 4, 2020. > > With that input, our plan is to assess rough consensus in the following > way: > > (a) See if there is consensus for a name identified given the “wouldn’t > object to being the WG name” preference and the level of “would object” > feedback > > (b) If there isn’t clear consensus with (a), but a significantly reduced > set of candidates around which there is enthusiasm, the chairs will share > the results and request feedback > > (c) If rough consensus appears to be reached through steps (a) – (b), > revisit the objections to this candidate name, elicit additional objections > and see if they change the consensus. > > Regards, > Yaron and Dick > > [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-txauth/ > [2] > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/txauth/GnTUvD191MGMF63Oe3VTqkYi0Wg/ > [3] > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/txauth/lAe06IW4nihUzyTkWVDcq8rnUa8/ > > > -- > Txauth mailing list > Txauth@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/txauth > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com> > To: David Skaife <blue.ringed.octopus.guy@gmail.com> > Cc: "txauth@ietf.org" <txauth@ietf.org> > Bcc: > Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 12:57:07 +0300 > Subject: Re: [Txauth] Call for WG name preferences > > Maybe, but the proposal makes it clear that the default for new names is > that we consider everyone to “object” to them unless explicitly told > otherwise.. So people will understand that the only way for a name to have > a chance is to propose it early in the game. > > > > Thanks, > > Yaron > > > > *From: *David Skaife <blue.ringed.octopus.guy@gmail.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, May 20, 2020 at 12:50 > *To: *Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com> > *Cc: *"txauth@ietf.org" <txauth@ietf.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Txauth] Call for WG name preferences > > > > Hi Yaron, > > > > I think overall the proposed approach is sensible, however, I'm not sure > it's a good idea to allow new names to be suggested at the same time as > when people are stating which names they would and wouldn't object to. It's > going to get very chaotic if new names are being suggested at the same time > as this consensus check. Also, what happens if someone suggests a new name > a few hours before the deadline giving very little time for people to > confirm whether they object to it or not? > > > Would it not be more sensible to draw a line under new name suggestions > before we then state our preferences? > > > Many thanks, > > David Skaife > > > > On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 9:34 PM Yaron Sheffer <yaronf.ietf@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi! > > After reviewing the community feedback and discussions with the AD, we’d > like to again launch a process to elicit feedback on naming. Our proposal > is below. We’d appreciate any clarifying questions, proposed improvements > or objections by 0800 UTC, Thursday, May 21st . > > Thanks, > Yaron and Dick > > PS, I’m sharing the load with Dick and taking point on this consensus call > -- Yaron > > ---- > > Before we submit the draft charter [1] to the IESG, we wanted to explore > the name of the group. During the chartering discussions, some people > objected to the BoF name being the WG name. We’d like to get consensus on > what the WG name should be. Our first attempt to elicit input [2] wasn’t > successful, and this is a second attempt to get consensus from the > community. > > To get to consensus, we want to gather preferences on the currently known > WG name candidates. Our goal is not to select the most popular name -- it > is to select a name everyone can live with and ensure that we understand > and weigh any objections there might be with that choice. To that end, > we’d like to elicit your name preferences in the following way: > > (1) In previous discussions, the following candidate names have been > voiced (we have listed only these names that received at least one vote > previously): > > * AAuthZ Alternative Authorization Protocol (AAuthZ) > * AZARP AuthoriZed Access to Resources Protocol > * AZARAP AuthoriZation And Resource Access Protocol > * BeBAuthZ Back-end Based Authorization Protocol > * BYOAuthZ Build-Your-Own Authorization Protocol > * CPAAP Comprehensive Privileged Authentication Authorization Protocol > * DAZARAP Delegated AuthoriZation And Resource Access Protocol > * DIYAuthZ Do-It-Yourself Authorization Protocol > * GNAP Grant Negotiation and Authorization Protocol > * GranPro GRAnt Negotiation Protocol > * IDPAuthZ Intent Driven Protocol for Authorization > * NIRAD Negotiation of Intent Registration and Authority Delegation > * PAuthZ Protocol for Authorization > * RefAuthZ Refactored Authorization Protocol > * ReAuthZ Reimagined Authorization Protocol > * TIAAP Tokenized Identity and Access Protocol > * TIDEAuth Trust via Intent Driven Extension Auth > * TIDYAuth Trust via Intent Driven Yield Auth > * TIEAuth Trust via Intent Extension Auth > * TINOA This Is Not OAuth > * TXAuth Testable eXtensible Authorization > * TxAuth Transmission of Authority > * TXAuth Truly eXtensible Authorization > * XAuthZ eXtensible authoriZation protocol > > We would ask that you consider these names, and respond to the list with > your selection of the following two categories: > > * “Wouldn’t Object” -- this is not necessarily your preferred name, but > you would be comfortable with it being the name of the WG (choose as many > names as you want) > * “Object” -- you would be uncomfortable with the WG being named in this > way (choose as many names as you want; please provide an explanation) > > (2) If your preferred name isn’t in the list per (1), you can send a note > to the mailing list stating that you’d like the WG to consider a new name. > Please ensure the name adheres to the previously discussed naming criteria > at [3]. We still request that you provide your other preferences and > objections. > > (3) If you previously sent in your preferences, but a new name suggestion > or someone’s objection changed your mind, then send another message to the > mailing list with your revised preferences. For the purposes of consensus, > we’ll assume that everyone who hasn’t commented on a new name introduced > per (2) “objects” to it (i.e., we want to hear positive confirmation of > preference on new names). > > (4) Please provide your input by 0800 UTC June 4, 2020. > > With that input, our plan is to assess rough consensus in the following > way: > > (a) See if there is consensus for a name identified given the “wouldn’t > object to being the WG name” preference and the level of “would object” > feedback > > (b) If there isn’t clear consensus with (a), but a significantly reduced > set of candidates around which there is enthusiasm, the chairs will share > the results and request feedback > > (c) If rough consensus appears to be reached through steps (a) – (b), > revisit the objections to this candidate name, elicit additional objections > and see if they change the consensus. > > Regards, > Yaron and Dick > > [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-txauth/ > [2] > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/txauth/GnTUvD191MGMF63Oe3VTqkYi0Wg/ > [3] > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/txauth/lAe06IW4nihUzyTkWVDcq8rnUa8/ > <https://mailarchive..ietf.org/arch/msg/txauth/lAe06IW4nihUzyTkWVDcq8rnUa8/> > > > -- > Txauth mailing list > Txauth@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/txauth > > Txauth mailing list > Txauth@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/txauth > > -- Txauth mailing list Txauth@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/txauth > Txauth mailing list > Txauth@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/txauth >
- Re: [Txauth] Txauth Digest, Vol 9, Issue 46 Fabien Imbault
- Re: [Txauth] Txauth Digest, Vol 9, Issue 46 Yaron Sheffer
- Re: [Txauth] Txauth Digest, Vol 9, Issue 46 Justin Richer