IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Unbearable] 0-RTT Token Binding: When to switch exporters?

Bill Cox <waywardgeek@google.com> Wed, 22 March 2017 01:20 UTC

Return-Path: <waywardgeek@google.com>
X-Original-To: unbearable@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: unbearable@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2026E129420 for <unbearable@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 21 Mar 2017 18:20:24 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.701
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aGc2TdjHXZUG for <unbearable@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 21 Mar 2017 18:20:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qk0-x22c.google.com (mail-qk0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E1AD1292F4 for <unbearable@ietf.org>; Tue, 21 Mar 2017 18:20:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qk0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id p64so148412471qke.1 for <unbearable@ietf.org>; Tue, 21 Mar 2017 18:20:22 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Sfg0oCbccQpPSiXjRz33pdUBbbjb11uR2sov7gmfGS8=; b=AQuV1vDta/RR54yafPiZ2EZvXXDgj7PHvMYBO1ZotKgFQTjRJ3amyuDiQ7bEeCM7IF MbUtXmvIDgphwM11pzMaJ7uQoGVBdMFzsaRgeZEkl391/FhRm+X1MVCkWV/fksYhrWD8 KlnjfYEJgi2L9nb5S1NvsNJoWgFrL6n4VFdpwwaQS342Sz8crc7wqJ+ZMtzEuWGmCKyJ 02IRw4mSTNmCaoJz174jr6wIC4uw4Qhfrj8IHY/lqqjwnBTxapPSheMNS/yXJo0AiEUE 3LcNW7yXPtKMe4TJU2bj49aR3thyPlSzMZubdQQEZUZ4Wid/a9PP0MFmKBX92HQtijBb 9hhw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Sfg0oCbccQpPSiXjRz33pdUBbbjb11uR2sov7gmfGS8=; b=iVGnPv8FfEJyAxbOnyV7yTXS748AlBuod+yLdjQj8GwwC4xqxXKyYwNhP8zLaRdIYd I/GLy+vQ04GujgKwPcpukWH77TwGeOOGv1qA93B6gpTaXOiAUHkyXGeTksEdsZP2qbGP hvev1l5bNC4RsSvl5mSdKfy/MtKgdNP8EySunB5okC3Xm/E//bVEE+8dzN6u28A7S88h eGI/GRBIwuNX/ho9BzbZUJMIpbWWAmUOnoyZMh6hhPnkC8qr1qnRirDuzJ3TUzKZMysu wkZZYlRttotaTcUgf4K3Xw0dtiafdmsUft/4uPwI7yGhfiiMZ9EH//gRHKZdZrjB02eS B78g==
X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H1oMxZMESL+Uy5aneBl5axlMy5Ecdn2ga4T+ctxtZlbj7mm95ooRgbwdxw2T/b2Y++fHjIijw6D96TxamX9
X-Received: by 10.55.164.207 with SMTP id n198mr35222311qke.95.1490145621326; Tue, 21 Mar 2017 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.140.21.134 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Mar 2017 18:20:20 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CACdeXi+YjLaXtoX47LtVK4Ay2y-mCOOraV46gbbbuQPL40ngXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACdeXiK2Hs=Kz_5OFryWR+9_t6nDL_p7NKjw=CwRsua_E5S9Mw@mail.gmail.com> <DM2PR0301MB084793F58146F8574BF36EE18C780@DM2PR0301MB0847.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> <CACdeXiJGcsTxrSWmd5BZrfoWTHhFF3+RisQFD628iYNMzZakhQ@mail.gmail.com> <CACdeXiJFe7-jM9qEnNB+Wp3joGxF_X1z+-dPywb9SRZuSNmAzQ@mail.gmail.com> <DM2PR21MB0091E3F087E1AECA3A63A3788C560@DM2PR21MB0091.namprd21.prod.outlook.com> <CACdeXi+YjLaXtoX47LtVK4Ay2y-mCOOraV46gbbbuQPL40ngXg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Bill Cox <waywardgeek@google.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 18:20:20 -0700
Message-ID: <CAH9QtQG9+wrbaPuDOqQw4N4K2SV_EE8CH4JX4xDJGkYgtYGHTQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Nick Harper <nharper@google.com>
Cc: Andrei Popov <Andrei.Popov@microsoft.com>, IETF Tokbind WG <unbearable@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114d2f806c9e7a054b47900c"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/unbearable/5XNISOLgQPThe_bWuP1qFSS9HKs>
Subject: Re: [Unbearable] 0-RTT Token Binding: When to switch exporters?
X-BeenThere: unbearable@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "\"This list is for discussion of proposals for doing better than bearer tokens \(e.g. HTTP cookies, OAuth tokens etc.\) for web applications. The specific goal is chartering a WG focused on preventing security token export and replay attacks.\"" <unbearable.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/unbearable>, <mailto:unbearable-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/unbearable/>
List-Post: <mailto:unbearable@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:unbearable-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/unbearable>, <mailto:unbearable-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2017 01:20:24 -0000

I'm just now reading this thread.  A couple points: I agree with Nick that
switching exporters will hurt adoption rates of toke binding.  I think
servers should decide if they want to support 0-RTT token binding, and
accept this as part of the risk.

As for replay prevention, only about 1% of verified token binding headers
make it to our auth backend, meaning we have about a 100X reduction in
computing costs if we do replay prevention there.  TB replay prevention
belongs in the auth backend.

Bill

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email