Re: [Unbearable] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-tokbind-https-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Tue, 26 June 2018 21:25 UTC
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From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 14:25:06 -0700
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To: Andrei Popov <Andrei.Popov@microsoft.com>
Cc: John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>, Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>, Dirk Balfanz <balfanz=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-tokbind-https@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-tokbind-https@ietf.org>, Tokbind WG <unbearable@ietf.org>, IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "tokbind-chairs@ietf.org" <tokbind-chairs@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Unbearable] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf-tokbind-https-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Should be, I need to do a double check to make sure other comments were dealt with, but assuming so, then yes. Should be able to do this tomorrow -Ekr On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 2:19 PM, Andrei Popov <Andrei.Popov@microsoft.com> wrote: > Done: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tokbind-https/. > > > > *From:* John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 26, 2018 2:14 PM > *To:* Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com> > *Cc:* Andrei Popov <Andrei.Popov@microsoft.com>; Eric Rescorla < > ekr@rtfm.com>; Dirk Balfanz <balfanz=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; > draft-ietf-tokbind-https@ietf.org; Tokbind WG <unbearable@ietf.org>; IESG > <iesg@ietf.org>; tokbind-chairs@ietf.org > > *Subject:* Re: [Unbearable] Ben Campbell's Discuss on > draft-ietf-tokbind-https-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > > > PS I suppose we need DIRK OR Andre to push a version with the changes. > > > > John B. > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 5:12 PM John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com> wrote: > > Thanks Ben. > > > > EKR once this Discuss is cleared are we good to move on to the final > embrace of the RFC editor? > > > > Regards > > John B. > > > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 2:58 PM Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jun 26, 2018, at 1:54 PM, Andrei Popov <Andrei.Popov@microsoft.com> > wrote: > > > > Hi Ben, > > > > Thanks for the review. > > > >> Are the “applications” from paragraph 3 the same as those from > paragraph 2? > > > > Yes, the same throughout paragraphs 1, 2 and 3. > > > >> It seems like paragraph 2 is talking more about local APIs (at least, I > see that was mentioned in the text in version 17 but not in 18), but > paragraph 3 uses an example of a signal from a server. (I can accept that > the difference in control may be weak enough for web applications that the > distinction does not matter.) > > > > The APIs provided by the TB implementation and called by the application > are local APIs. > > The application needs to make a decision whether to request that the TB > implementation include a Referred binding in the TB message or not. > > In the example, the server provides a signal to the application using > the Include-Referred-Token-Binding-ID HTTP response header. > > The signal could be different, or an application may have out-of-band > ways to determine this (e.g. a local database of RP->IDP associations). > > I just re-read the 3rd paragraph, and I think I missed the “then” in > “which then signals” on the first reading. It’s fine as is. > > Thanks! > > Ben. > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Andrei > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 11:41 AM > > To: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> > > Cc: Dirk Balfanz <balfanz=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; > draft-ietf-tokbind-https@ietf.org; Tokbind WG <unbearable@ietf.org>; The > IESG <iesg@ietf.org>; John Bradley <ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com>; > tokbind-chairs@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Unbearable] Ben Campbell's Discuss on > draft-ietf-tokbind-https-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > > > Hi, thanks for the pointer. > > > > The text in version 18 is sufficient to clear my discuss. I have one > remaining (or maybe new) non-blocking question for section 6: > > > > Are the “applications” from paragraph 3 the same as those from paragraph > 2? It seems like paragraph 2 is talking more about local APIs (at least, I > see that was mentioned in the text in version 17 but not in 18), but > paragraph 3 uses an example of a signal from a server. (I can accept that > the difference in control may be weak enough for web applications that the > distinction does not matter.) > > > > I did not check my editorial comments. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Ben. > > > >> On Jun 25, 2018, at 6:30 PM, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> wrote: > >> > >> Ben, > >> > >> Does the following new text address your concern: > >> https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/cgi-bin/xml2rfc.cgi?modeAsFormat=html/a > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fxml2rfc.tools.ietf.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fxml2rfc.cgi%3FmodeAsFormat%3Dhtml%2Fa&data=02%7C01%7CAndrei.Popov%40microsoft.com%7Cf57a905ae88e4850fb8808d5dba9d524%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636656444842164263&sdata=Y%2BREp5UE5Jm9yUeshFJ1eXblnfs0C5W31uG%2Fk6mtIO0%3D&reserved=0> > >> scii&url=https://raw.githubusercontent.com/TokenBinding/Internet-Draft > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fraw.githubusercontent.com%2FTokenBinding%2FInternet-Draft&data=02%7C01%7CAndrei.Popov%40microsoft.com%7Cf57a905ae88e4850fb8808d5dba9d524%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636656444842174271&sdata=Lg7YBDv2yEZP3pYMkztxew9u34xhtNnY8ocvLuujD8M%3D&reserved=0> > >> s/master/draft-ietf-tokbind-https-18.xml > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 1:26 PM, Dirk Balfanz <balfanz= > 40google..com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > >> Hi Ben, > >> > >> thanks for the feedback. Most of it is addressed in the new draft ( > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tokbind-https-16 > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-tokbind-https-16&data=02%7C01%7CAndrei.Popov%40microsoft.com%7Cf57a905ae88e4850fb8808d5dba9d524%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636656444842184279&sdata=IJHYDJSWoUy5Ao8EWj1lHn8s5WuqTCD%2FH5hAVbmMdVk%3D&reserved=0>). > See below (inline) for details. > >> > >> On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 1:38 PM Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com> wrote: > >> Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for > >> draft-ietf-tokbind-https-14: Discuss > >> > >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > >> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut > >> this introductory paragraph, however.) > >> > >> > >> Please refer to > >> https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fiesg%2Fstatement%2Fdiscuss-criteria.html&data=02%7C01%7CAndrei.Popov%40microsoft.com%7Cf57a905ae88e4850fb8808d5dba9d524%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636656444842184279&sdata=irsD0beoR1vbnMm%2FB5vrDF4gwAs4HHulXEumzjFJj0M%3D&reserved=0> > >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > >> > >> > >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tokbind-https/ > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-tokbind-https%2F&data=02%7C01%7CAndrei.Popov%40microsoft.com%7Cf57a905ae88e4850fb8808d5dba9d524%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636656444842194288&sdata=m3aq2LeWis4PZmysUZeVb%2Fai%2BqEaewg%2BAlv8BB68%2FxM%3D&reserved=0> > >> > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> DISCUSS: > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> I plan to ballot "YES", but I want to clear up once concern first: > >> > >> After reading section 6 several times, I don't know what it means. I > >> think it's [...] > >> > >> Addressed in new draft. > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> COMMENT: > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Substantive Comments: > >> > >> §1.1: Please consider using the boilerplate from 8174 across the > >> cluster. Both this and the protocol draft have lower case keyword > instances. > >> > >> Addressed in new draft. > >> > >> > >> §8.2: > >> - Does it really make sense to wait for a user to request the keys be > expired? > >> I suspect the average user does this about never. Did the working > >> group discuss possibly making the keys default to expiring after some > period of time? > >> > >> Yes, we did discuss it. This was chosen consciously to be in sync with > cookies and their expirations / manual user-initiated purges. > >> > >> - Why > >> is the SHOULD in paragraph 2 not a MUST? > >> > >> Addressed in new draft. > >> > >> > >> Editorial Comments: > >> > >> §2: > >> - Paragraph 1: "The ABNF of the Sec-Token-Binding header field is (in > >> [RFC7230] style, see also Section 8.3 of [RFC7231]):" The open > parenthesis before "in" > >> seems misplaced. Also, as written the comma after "style" creates a > >> comma splice. (Note that this pattern occurs elsewhere in the > >> document.) > >> > >> - Paragraph 3: The paragraph is a single hard-to-parse sentence. > >> Please consider breaking into simpler sentences. > >> > >> Addressed in new draft. > >> > >> > >> - example: Am I correct to assume the backslashes are just for print > >> purposes and are not in the actual message? If so, please mention that. > >> > >> Addressed in new draft. > >> > >> > >> § 2.1: > >> - first paragraph, "Within the latter context...": There was no former > context. > >> I suggest "Within that context..." > >> > >> Addressed in new draft. > >> > >> - 2nd paragraph: The first sentence is hard to parse. I suggest > >> breaking it into separate paragraphs, or restructure without the > >> center-imbedding. > >> > >> Addressed in new draft. > >> > >> - 2nd to last paragraph: Does "SHOULD generally" > >> mean the same as just "SHOULD"? > >> > >> Addressed in new draft. > >> > >> > >> §5.1: 2nd paragraph: Unneeded comma in "... itself, to another > server..." > >> > >> Addressed in new draft. > >> > >> > >> §5.2, > >> - last bullet: " (between client and Token Consumer)" seems more than > >> parenthetical. Please consider removing the parentheses. > >> > >> Addressed in new draft. > >> > >> - paragraph after last > >> bullet: The parenthetical phrase starting with "(proving > >> possession...) is quite long and makes the sentence hard to parse. > >> Given that the concept is covered in the immediately preceding > paragraph, can it be removed? > >> > >> Addressed in new draft. > >> > >> > >> §7.1 and §7.2: These sections seem to be copied from (or restate > >> requirements > >> in) the protocol and negotiation drafts. Can they be included by > >> reference instead, or at least attributed? > >> > >> Addressed in new draft. > >> > >> > >> §7.2, 2nd paragraph: This seams like a restatement of §7.1. > >> > >> Addressed in new draft. > >> > >> > >> §8.3: Unneeded comma in first sentence. > >> > >> Addressed in new draft. > >> > >> Thanks again for the thoughtful comments! > >> > >> Dirk. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Unbearable mailing list > >> Unbearable@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/unbearable > <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Funbearable&data=02%7C01%7CAndrei.Popov%40microsoft.com%7Cf57a905ae88e4850fb8808d5dba9d524%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636656444842194288&sdata=NLYzqLIc9d9qH0VTbDcC%2BYdYaSR%2Bs653eBpQ6Alk%2FbA%3D&reserved=0> > >> > >> > > > >
- Re: [Unbearable] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Unbearable] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-… Andrei Popov
- Re: [Unbearable] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-… John Bradley
- Re: [Unbearable] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-… John Bradley
- Re: [Unbearable] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Unbearable] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-… Andrei Popov
- Re: [Unbearable] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Unbearable] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-… Eric Rescorla
- [Unbearable] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-ietf… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Unbearable] Ben Campbell's Discuss on draft-… Dirk Balfanz