[Unwanted-trackers] Re: [hrpc] New version of draft-irtf-hrpc-ipvc: Intimate Partner Violence Digital Considerations

Eugenia Georgiades <Eugenia.Georgiades@unisq.edu.au> Thu, 21 November 2024 02:34 UTC

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From: Eugenia Georgiades <Eugenia.Georgiades@unisq.edu.au>
To: "Grundner-Culemann, Sophia" <grundner-culemann@nm.ifi.lmu.de>, Sofia Celi <cherenkov@riseup.net>, "hrpc@irtf.org" <hrpc@irtf.org>
Thread-Topic: [hrpc] New version of draft-irtf-hrpc-ipvc: Intimate Partner Violence Digital Considerations
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Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2024 02:24:38 +0000
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Subject: [Unwanted-trackers] Re: [hrpc] New version of draft-irtf-hrpc-ipvc: Intimate Partner Violence Digital Considerations
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Hi Sophia  and everyone

You raise some valid points and it might an idea- if this falls outside the scope then what do you think about collaborating to submit a proposal for the call for the esafety  grant that  Andrew sent through.

I’m interested in collaborating  if anyone wants to reach out- I think it would be great to bridge the gap between tech and law.

Kind regards
Eugenia


Dr Eugenia Georgiades

Associate Professor | School of Law and Justice | T125

T: +61 7 38126378<tel:+61%207%2038126378>

E: eugenia.georgiades@unisq.edu.au<mailto:eugenia.georgiades@unisq.edu.au>

School of Law and Justice  | Academic Division

University of Southern Queensland | Ipswich, Queensland | 4305| Australia



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The University of Southern Queensland acknowledges the First Nations of southern Queensland and their ongoing connection to Country, lands, and waterways. Further, we recognise Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the first educators and researchers of Australia. We pay deep respect to Elders past and present.


________________________________
From: Grundner-Culemann, Sophia <grundner-culemann@nm.ifi.lmu.de>
Sent: Wednesday, 20 November 2024 7:40 PM
To: Sofia Celi <cherenkov@riseup.net>; hrpc@irtf.org <hrpc@irtf.org>
Cc: unwanted-trackers@ietf.org <unwanted-trackers@ietf.org>
Subject: [Unwanted-trackers] Re: [hrpc] New version of draft-irtf-hrpc-ipvc: Intimate Partner Violence Digital Considerations

Hi *,

Thanks for your work, I think it's in very good shape.

Only the paragraph about CSAM and deepfakes makes me unhappy:

   "Although the category of technology-abuse includes practices such as
   Child Sexual Abuse Material (CSAM), or digital manipulation of images
   and videos (deepfakes) to exhibit and slander women [Witness], those
   tactics are out of scope in this document, since the attacker is not
   part of the victim's social environment, i.e. they do not necessarily
   have access to the victim's local network.  However, in some
   ocasions, this distinction doesn’t always hold."

I disagree that what puts them out of scope is that IPV happens in the social environment and the others don't.
CSA and "revenge" deepfakes absolutely also occur from within the victims' social circles in many cases, not only on "some occasions" (see, e.g., [1],[2]).
I'd like to avoid reiterating this wrong but widespread impression.

Adding "necessarily" (... not necessarily part of ...) might be enough, or making the point about local networks clearer; e.g. that this document is concerned with abuse exerted from within the social environment/local network by accessing or controlling devices, accounts or digital representation with any means. Of course, CSAM and deepfakes can be part of this, but their specific dangers and challenges are out of scope.

Best

Sophia

[1] https://secure-web.cisco.com/1edpK9rX4oDOhfePoizErWHsJh2bLrmU9UizkujtBjb9RDFSV1ItgH05r7bo5bE0yGhsf7kXr6F8VQvq-FgVZ8xxpjtsyXmOHeF1Go18WWmlgWYE-teJJ_z6Wx0uP4quXtbOmmh4LmSKWlJJftXr0Lyf2PKa_nDh92spevBh4N_dmJBJVrcl6Rw_fRf6OEbT_5HJvAdJhbvHo9yGBHerSn-4XH4E32R_BHW3-VWQdNEbN-GKy_em-LBSpeelIhVMgEMzlF5LjxxBEB4_HpBNLnUIyvDW4f64vaRSGpKMdDpzKFLq67qi1jaWAC1IEyzYpe06rbqeWY4x7C1a5LY-3X3sogWvhX8rdeD2PiWhFUp35kPI7kH-6VqGbf5XS9KjSZThk2raRZm0t_2FJRS6sGpbJ41dDydmKEuhaRPheOYkzXAHF3bTY9Yu7DV72Ws1C/https%3A%2F%2Fbeauftragte-missbrauch.de%2Fen%2Fthemen%2Fdefinition%2Fwhere-does-abuse-occur
[2] https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15564886.2022.2036656

-----Original Message-----
From: Sofia Celi <cherenkov@riseup.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2024 6:59 PM
To: hrpc@irtf.org
Cc: unwanted-trackers@ietf.org
Subject: [hrpc] New version of draft-irtf-hrpc-ipvc: Intimate Partner Violence Digital Considerations

Dear, everyone,

Thank you so much for the people that gave feedback on the version 00 of the draft. We have incorporated the majority of it in the version 01 of
it: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-irtf-hrpc-ipvc-01.txt Special thank to Jens Finkhaeuser and Sheetal Kumar for the concrete feedback and for pointers to proper research work!

Please, let us know if you have any further feedback or more research we should look at. I'm also adding the DULT mailing list in case people of that WG have any thoughts on the draft.

Thank you,
--
Sofía Celi
@claucece
Cryptographic research and implementation at many places.
Reach me out at: cherenkov@riseup.net
Website: https://secure-web.cisco.com/1RAoM6nOg2tyq1c3VWBWf71QU5ks-oNuW0SJ5DibHoF6xAxPSCEJx4FgKYrbZQTHyX43-8y_JpXqfoQO74Tq3S1UXYCaDDqLbeCKFyU8VvxPIE3vZYvkaPRFszClbSgfidOK6q47a8tgkvqnjDkK8r0paesl8urXE_UQK60aeI4TmZMTS48pIwmEzJvLoZR4I3-in9FG4pjFkqzgUp3XzWcrCSmBqv7AxKTVSjJjdF9XSmqRBqcQPu_7OVx5AUjRmzDOVABqoMyU3KLhXWHGkLvfBobq0PrtvpU53xsFRylLpXZgaVBM_vREl_LQCqIzZCE-JduwLLoxpm4KdJqmeuhOO0SCMgrdCUQr7B9pCEZxhhOFUqEvc-ajDkwRiEE88ESHy5Up5UtQxLZdz-R-F6-Ami-3gDkavTStY_WZVITtzSrcIitWwFtCRHHhBYYMa/https%3A%2F%2Fsofiaceli.com%2F

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