[Uri-review] Re: [art] Re: Re: Alternative representation of URIs in YANG

Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net> Tue, 27 January 2026 00:15 UTC

Return-Path: <mt@lowentropy.net>
X-Original-To: uri-review@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: uri-review@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 624F5AD7C12F; Mon, 26 Jan 2026 16:15:38 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.799
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lowentropy.net header.b="C0eMWX/M"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b="d9Rri2gq"
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d79p-9rSUcH7; Mon, 26 Jan 2026 16:15:37 -0800 (PST)
Received: from fhigh-a7-smtp.messagingengine.com (fhigh-a7-smtp.messagingengine.com [103.168.172.158]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0D90AD7C0BA; Mon, 26 Jan 2026 16:15:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: from phl-compute-04.internal (phl-compute-04.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailfhigh.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB98B1400102; Mon, 26 Jan 2026 19:15:12 -0500 (EST)
Received: from phl-imap-15 ([10.202.2.104]) by phl-compute-04.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 26 Jan 2026 19:15:12 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type :date:date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm3; t=1769472912; x=1769559312; bh=wNg3ZAVCvWjlBanlHr2HjmTxu1el9s0Q lhea++Fjom8=; b=C0eMWX/M912lPW0Qq+OIAHBtV029QiXEh1Z+UT/2AIKHZ8U8 aqpwjr6rEWDrCEFilwzTwIujYnIWB1GjVf4vDw9HPJv8eoen5EyRyuxXp/ODv7v4 R2o5iRqJPB1UkrfCQmhGZ5Qtus9HwSh37pfPtcfWEeiG6aYGc3a/1/a1uTArlB2H 72qnbshRqxJ3o7zx1MGuss5z9q0cLdYAPSCWt0QvvwNW5xUt9gFtrrMeQszUZh3h 4M3sxObvf298pKqHPqfwEfq6/9OCbbF3CUY73ZQGyuyGfTCc5wcxZyQFRcyRxT2m xg2D3SFyygWixRgQML4Onz8VpK5QR39SPxlqkg==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; t=1769472912; x= 1769559312; bh=wNg3ZAVCvWjlBanlHr2HjmTxu1el9s0Qlhea++Fjom8=; b=d 9Rri2gqZlXl6+IN81XO0kK5yp7KbMIaTWOUdAO7iJNxv2E8ZZHhwv+nG6z5+Hq2t j8cUzBbQR5AU+Cqeg5OJcflni5jrlJSGB7Y11pqj72hMoqVm96ekCtOU4zul104Z tSFAY3wz0LwHaoE0CRHB3tpFmq/vxYd4hOYbr4NoYgVIYRsw0zOEwpq0JHqs+3ny pDGo4C4fqwIZCBjC+4D1C0mqy640PjfN57pDB8hFPZElvwqJ6dzMMOEWcufKG0Bj uAqR9waZYUqBKufwmADiHXWivOaOA+YHq1sJ1mvR0kG3Avp10n3ELXR0WRkEZQhq 82G3QPDLX4ISvK/N6AxDQ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:kAN4aZQfUkgM1YaU9XRxmwFM2Ud_O8war56v5MYb_Ai-OP8OGZM1ag> <xme:kAN4adk9VePHeYnG8DxRKwcjKM7mNQHGwOLyL44b_g_J-lTWnQYDKm3ebVTIBxttC rmognWk27u9A5ASJJzYyrnvx61Z3Z1dVhNTHoLHIEWCF0nXItJqrLI>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefgedrtddtgdduheeltdekucetufdoteggodetrf dotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceu rghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujf gurhepofggfffhvfevkfgjfhfutgfgsehtjeertdertddtnecuhfhrohhmpedfofgrrhht ihhnucfvhhhomhhsohhnfdcuoehmtheslhhofigvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvghtqeenucggtf frrghtthgvrhhnpeffgefhgeeltdehheduveevieekgedvfedvuefhteffleekhffftdeg hfekueduffenucffohhmrghinhepphdrshenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurf grrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehmtheslhhofigvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvghtpdhnsggp rhgtphhtthhopeehpdhmohguvgepshhmthhpohhuthdprhgtphhtthhopehmjhgvthhhrg hnrghnuggrnhhisehgmhgrihhlrdgtohhmpdhrtghpthhtoheprghrthesihgvthhfrdho rhhgpdhrtghpthhtohepuhhrihdqrhgvvhhivgifsehivghtfhdrohhrghdprhgtphhtth hopehurhhiseiffedrohhrghdprhgtphhtthhopehkvghnthdoihgvthhfseifrghtshgv nhdrnhgvth
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:kAN4aS-UJd8mU_VJOpX9MpMTWTpss4kqT2_7MrX_VV4TCZS_qDFQdg> <xmx:kAN4aZk4oz4Sl4Mpfyzl6cVvQdRH1BiA-js21_7L7OMjxeAhpj9FfQ> <xmx:kAN4aQUid85lShF54htdUcArHiyA29M3kUVQRw_mIdCnt5s2Sz_XdQ> <xmx:kAN4aWEkhymDratHeJQLoUo4ps8DJ9A9PMW8Qsr8ZqyPi3Q981tQIQ> <xmx:kAN4aX0gQ2JEBYoTipLcDQSsW30L7ofv7pXjxV1nMD_-65FHUE9wFcJ5>
Feedback-ID: ic129442d:Fastmail
Received: by mailuser.phl.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id AE849780070; Mon, 26 Jan 2026 19:15:12 -0500 (EST)
X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-ThreadId: AruTPOI_qQOs
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2026 11:14:52 +1100
From: Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>
To: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
Message-Id: <58bfdddb-fc1a-401a-945b-2c3637a48620@betaapp.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <0100019bfb182b61-75a76690-f254-4bd2-8001-3a708adbae9d-000000@email.amazonses.com>
References: <87zf669z4x.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> <0100019be639037e-5401829e-3666-454e-b2c1-e9ac65a04ac5-000000@email.amazonses.com> <e1356eb8-31ba-47ce-9a1f-8d42713184a9@betaapp.fastmail.com> <263D72B1-54D9-47BA-9787-8A3F3889A6ED@gmail.com> <f5bjyx8y0v0.fsf@lochinver.inf.ed.ac.uk> <D7A3B7FB-0284-4DCF-B840-8114860A0FDD@gmail.com> <802512BC-D897-40DE-A79F-ACB6E8921DA7@mnot.net> <9A94D747-2F88-46A2-8DD2-188C1F0B0A3F@gmail.com> <0100019bfb182b61-75a76690-f254-4bd2-8001-3a708adbae9d-000000@email.amazonses.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID-Hash: QFEXT7XE55X3RE4RSYMR2H6AMQU7N7I3
X-Message-ID-Hash: QFEXT7XE55X3RE4RSYMR2H6AMQU7N7I3
X-MailFrom: mt@lowentropy.net
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-uri-review.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: art@ietf.org, "uri@w3.org" <uri@w3.org>, uri-review@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [Uri-review] Re: [art] Re: Re: Alternative representation of URIs in YANG
List-Id: Proposed URI Schemes <uri-review.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/uri-review/fiKDzNyza2CLIHWeSKGP8nzT3lo>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/uri-review>
List-Help: <mailto:uri-review-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:uri-review-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:uri-review@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:uri-review-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:uri-review-leave@ietf.org>

On Tue, Jan 27, 2026, at 03:17, Kent Watsen wrote:
> PS: I still don't think the HTTP folks made their case.

What case?

It might be worth stepping back a little here and examining what the fundamental goals are.  Looking at -31 of the draft, the <uri> element is part of the client only.  Apparently, an HTTP client has a single URI that it is fixated on.

That doesn't match my model of an HTTP client at all.  Clients routinely make many requests to different resources, following redirects and making decisions about other requests that might be made.

So, is a client *defined* by the resource that it fetches or interacts with?  Almost certainly not.  Is it instantiated to request a single resource?  That's possible, but not especially useful.  I guess you could use that to model a single invocation of the Fetch API, but I don't think that Fetch is conceived of as a single interaction with the API or that a binding to a single URI is a good fit for the model.

The question I'd like to ask is whether this module needs to define the client in this way.  I see that this element is mandatory, but only for a subset of the URI components that would not be sufficient to construct a functioning HTTPS URI (I can't be sure for other schemes).

What purpose do you see this information serving?

--Martin

p.s., Let's leave aside that fragments are included, but do not play a part in HTTP. That's a distraction.
p.p.s., I can see why you might have rules for a client that constrain what it can talk to, maybe for security reasons (see also Content Security Policy).  That's a very different thing though and also a distraction.