Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft
Larry Masinter <masinter@parc.xerox.com> Mon, 21 April 1997 13:48 UTC
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:58:48 -0700
From: Larry Masinter <masinter@parc.xerox.com>
Organization: Xerox PARC
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To: "Martin J. Duerst" <mduerst@ifi.unizh.ch>
Cc: uri@bunyip.com, fielding@kiwi.ics.uci.edu, Harald.T.Alvestrand@uninett.no
Subject: Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft
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> Well, they print something like http://WEB.SANYO.CO.JP/FOODSHOP, > where upper case is Japanese characters. Actually, this is unsatisfactory. What, exactly, would they print? Would they print "http://" too? Will Japanese users find that familiar and comfortable? I'm afraid "something like" isn't useful as a specification. > Of course, for this we have > to assume that DNS works with characters beyond ASCII, but that's > a separate problem that can be solved (see draft-duerst-dns-i18n-00.txt). I fundamentally disagree with your idea that we can promote the solution to a problem in pieces, where the pieces, just by themselves, don't actually solve a problem and, in fact, introduce interoperability difficulty. So I'm unwilling to "assume" that other pieces of the solution will be introduced in order to make a whole. > This is entered as such into a browser. We assume that those users > that are the target of the Sanyoo depaato food shop page can read > Japanes and have equipment that allows them to input Japanese. > I won't go into the details of entering the corresponding characters, > it's a process the Japanese computer users are very familliar with. No, I'm sorry, this is completely inadequate. I'm vaguely familiar with a number of of Japanese typing methods, and I believe that you've not been specific enough. What happens with the codes for "http://", for example, since these are not 'Japanese characters'? What about unusual names which seem to be printed with furigana in Japanese newspapers? > The browser then would convert the Japanese characters into UTF-8 > and (add %HH encoding) and pass the URL to the resolver machinery, > where the host part would be resolved with DNS, and then the machine > at the corresponding IP number would be contacted with HTTP. This discussion applies only to HTTP URLs, though. You're proposing that the recommendation be put into place for all existing URL schemes and new versions of them, too. > That > machine would of course have been set up so that the correct page > is returned. How, please, is the machine set up? What has to be done at the server & system administration level? What's the transition strategy for a server that wants to serve current clients as well as these new browsers that can deal with the proposal you're promoting? > I hope this explanation is detailled enough. If you don't understand > some part of it, please tell us. As you see, it was inadequate for the purposes of being a stand-in for 'running code': there are a number of unresolved design issues in your plan, those design issues must be resolved before interoperable implementations can be deployed, and I'm uncertain as to whether the results, when taken in total, actually solve the problem you set out to solve, or even improve the situation significantly. And given the difficult transition strategy and lack of interoperability with currently deployed systems, I doubt that a proposal will actually be adopted unless that's so. That's why "something like" is inadequate above. If someone had running code, they could just run it and show us what the results were. Regards, Larry -- http://www.parc.xerox.com/masinter
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Foteos Macrides
- leading ".." (Re: revised ...) Gregory J. Woodhouse
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Roy T. Fielding
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Francois Yergeau
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Roy T. Fielding
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Martin J. Duerst
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Francois Yergeau
- Transcribing non-ascii URLs [was: revised "generi… Dan Connolly
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Edward Cherlin
- Re: Transcribing non-ascii URLs [was: revised "ge… Martin J. Duerst
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Roy T. Fielding
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Dan Oscarsson
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Martin J. Duerst
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft John C Klensin
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Gary Adams - Sun Microsystems Labs BOS
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Larry Masinter
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Gary Adams - Sun Microsystems Labs BOS
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Chris Newman
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Chris Newman
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Keld J|rn Simonsen
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Roy T. Fielding
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Chris Newman
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Roy T. Fielding
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Roy T. Fielding
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Roy T. Fielding
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Edward Cherlin
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Larry Masinter
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Harald.T.Alvestrand
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Roy T. Fielding
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Jon Knight
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Jon Knight
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft John C Klensin
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Ron Daniel, Jr.
- Re: Transcribing non-ascii URLs [was: revised "ge… Bert Bos
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Gary Adams - Sun Microsystems Labs BOS
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Gary Adams - Sun Microsystems Labs BOS
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Gary Adams - Sun Microsystems Labs BOS
- A workable alternative to "hex-encoded UTF-8 enco… Larry Masinter
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Larry Masinter
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Larry Masinter
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft John C Klensin
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Harald.T.Alvestrand
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Martin J. Duerst
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Roy T. Fielding
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Chris Newman
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Martin J. Duerst
- Re: A workable alternative to "hex-encoded UTF-8 … Martin J. Duerst
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Martin J. Duerst
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Martin J. Duerst
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Martin J. Duerst
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Martin J. Duerst
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Martin J. Duerst
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Martin J. Duerst
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Martin J. Duerst
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Larry Masinter
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Martin J. Duerst
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Martin J. Duerst
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Keld J|rn Simonsen
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Keld J|rn Simonsen
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Jonathan Rosenne
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Keld J|rn Simonsen
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Martin J. Duerst
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Keld J|rn Simonsen
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Martin J. Duerst
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Edward Cherlin
- Opaque right hand sides (was: Re: revised "generi… John C Klensin
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Karen R. Sollins
- UTF-8 and URLs Larry Masinter
- Re: UTF-8 and URLs Dan Connolly
- Re: UTF-8 and URLs Chris Newman
- Re: UTF-8 and URLs John C Klensin
- Re: UTF-8 and URLs Francois Yergeau
- Re: UTF-8 and URLs Dan Connolly
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Edward Cherlin
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft John C Klensin
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Keld J|rn Simonsen
- Re: UTF-8 and URLs Martin J. Duerst
- Re: UTF-8 and URLs Francois Yergeau
- Re: UTF-8 and URLs Dan Connolly
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Martin J. Duerst
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Martin J. Duerst
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Martin J. Duerst
- New proposal (was Re: UTF-8 and URLs) Edward Cherlin
- Re: UTF-8 and URLs Larry Masinter
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Martin J. Duerst
- Re: UTF-8 and URLs Martin J. Duerst
- initial "relative-looking" elements. Larry Masinter
- Re: revised "generic syntax" internet draft Edward Cherlin
- Re: initial "relative-looking" elements. Roy T. Fielding