Re: URN UUID question
Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org> Mon, 24 March 2014 20:29 UTC
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 23:29:03 +0300
From: Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org>
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To: Joel Kalvesmaki <kalvesmaki@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: URN UUID question
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On 03/24/2014 05:20 PM, Joel Kalvesmaki wrote: > Dear Sandro, > > I would like people who do not own or have access to a domain name to > be able to mint names. Further, it's important that names be valid for > centuries to come. > > Another important but less critical point is that HTTP URIs give the > impression that one can and should get more information about the item > by making an HTTP request to that string. But the majority of things > named in my data model would have no further online representation, > and it would be nice to avoid giving readers of data the impression > that there are or editors of the data the impression that they ought > to be writing and providing supplementary RDF. The naming system I > adopt needs to be immediately intelligible to ordinary people. And > when most people see a URL they don't think about names, they think > about locations to visit--it can be very confusing, even to very > intelligent people. > > My concerns are akin to those that have motivated the architects of > Canonical Text Services[1][2][3] to develop the convention > "urn:cts:……" to provide names for ancient literary works, their > fragments, and their versions. their naming scheme stands independent > of server performance, etc. But it also can be easily incorporated > into registries that facilitate Semantic Web applications. > > I would appreciate reading reflections and reactions from you and > others on this list. > It seems to me like nice, working URLs are always good to have. I do understand sometimes they are too expensive, though, yes. -- Sandro > Best wishes, > > jk > > [1] http://www.homermultitext.org/hmt-doc/cite/cts-urn-overview.html > [2] Smith, Neel. “Citation in Classical Studies.” /Digital Humanities > Quarterly/3, no. 1 (2009). > http://www.digitalhumanities.org/dhq/vol/003/1/000028/000028.html. > [3] Smith, Neel, and C. W. Blackwell. “Four URLs, Limitless Apps: > Separation of Concerns in the Homer Multitext Architecture.” In /Donum > Natalicium Digitaliter Confectum Gregorio Nagy Septuagenario a > Discipulis Collegis Familiaribus Oblatum: A Virtual Birthday Gift > Presented to Gregory Nagy on Turning Seventy by His Students, > Colleagues, and Friends/. Washington, D.C.: Center for Hellenic > Studies, 2012. > http://chs.harvard.edu/wa/pageR?tn=ArticleWrapper&bdc=12&mn=4846. > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 7:44 AM, Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org > <mailto:sandro@w3.org>> wrote: > > On 03/24/2014 12:48 PM, "Martin J. Dürst" wrote: > > On 2014/03/20 09:15, Joel Kalvesmaki wrote: > > I need unique, persistent names. The name needs to be a > single IRI/URI to > allow any version of any document to be named easily in > any RDF > declarations any third party might want to make. > > > After reading the specs on the tag URN, I'm very > impressed, and think that > it will suit the XML model nicely. Tag URNs provide two > extra bonuses I > hadn't anticipated: human readability and decentralized > unique agent > identification. > > I do wish IRI forms of tag URNs had gotten off the ground, > but maybe that > will come some day? > > > Looking at https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4151, that indeed > seems to be an unfortunate oversight. > > Instead of > >>>> > In the interests of tractability to humans, tags SHOULD NOT > be minted > with percent-encoded parts. However, the tag syntax does allow > percent-encoded characters in the "pchar" elements (defined > in RFC > 3986 [1]). > >>>> > > It should allow percent-encoded parts also in the > authorityName part, and specify that in all cases, such > percent-encoded parts must be created and interpreted using > UTF-8. After all, that's what RFC 3986 (which is heavily > cited) says for authority names. > > > Interesting. I'm trying to remember the motivations here. > > Certainly unnecessary percent encoding is a problem because it > causes confusion about whether two URIs are the same. (If you have > to ask that, they are not. But people may not realize that. > Some people might think "tag:sandro@hawke.org > <mailto:tag%3Asandro@hawke.org>,2014:A" and "tag:sandro@hawke.org > <mailto:tag%3Asandro@hawke.org>,2014:%41" are the same, but they > are not.) > > On the authorityName, if it's a DNSName, presumably you'd use > punycode, not percent encoding, right? If it's an emailAddress, > presumably you'd use punycode for the DNSname part of it. I don't > know what one's supposed to use for the part before the @ in an > email address? I haven't kept up on the email standards. > Is there consensus about that? > > > Sandro, Tim, is there a chance this can be fixed sooner or later? > > > I'm not using or endorsing tag: URIs at all these days. From my > perspective, http or https URLs are better in very-nearly every > situation. But I wouldn't be opposed to someone else updating > the tag URI spec. > > Joel, can I ask why you can't or don't want to use an http or > https URL instead of a tag? > > -- Sandro > > Regards, Martin. > > > > > > -- > Joel Kalvesmaki > kalvesmaki.com <http://kalvesmaki.com>
- URN UUID question Joel Kalvesmaki
- Re: URN UUID question Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: URN UUID question Joel Kalvesmaki
- Re: URN UUID question Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: URN UUID question Joel Kalvesmaki
- Re: URN UUID question Dale R. Worley
- Re: URN UUID question Joel Kalvesmaki
- Re: URN UUID question Martin J. Dürst
- Re: URN UUID question Sandro Hawke
- Re: URN UUID question Joel Kalvesmaki
- Re: URN UUID question Sandro Hawke
- Re: URN UUID question Dale R. Worley
- Re: URN UUID question Martin J. Dürst
- Re: URN UUID question Joel Kalvesmaki