From stpeter@stpeter.im Wed Jan 31 11:03:49 2024 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 745FFC14F694 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 11:03:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.806 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.806 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=stpeter.im header.b="zOGvwv7y"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b="AI9JFA0j" Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rRhkIzJx9Fst for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 11:03:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7368C14F690 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 11:03:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 475BE5C00D4; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 14:03:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 31 Jan 2024 14:03:44 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=stpeter.im; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date:date :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t=1706727824; x=1706814224; bh=s5wwUIgdok22mRADwL4knRenLNtFi7pcOC53r5Y7W6M=; b= zOGvwv7yaGZG8WUDpIoMplgxhzxIr00CA3nsCDHBw8BmelPqULC6eSBxsZTC6ZCT 9eB1FPdQRsI5VFXoE9Vm4+NHKki0nrTsatdSfW2HtpWdYEdxGW56r/BfJ7cR1Q8r NxODlSB+xysvjHE1wiunhVb5G+26kUC2otYOw5/vmzOMwuxFfU26xYdxNNgZoDTZ kUu/juKYwLrmY9hCD6Yyek+fYuooczArNbJGj2Ldaj9cYs+YOKoq0y3Nic8HBvQE PBKQW1LNvgcy3KXbpyv1TVyZYeZbkhdLC1JHIn0PddmL0Zi5lMGipTwka17Rkpek 0ehboROKQaB2zKSVtseSeQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from :in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t=1706727824; x= 1706814224; bh=s5wwUIgdok22mRADwL4knRenLNtFi7pcOC53r5Y7W6M=; b=A I9JFA0j59H2WVN5fU0ZTfwUKeMjTbxSkmk+34TWI6ZWC413I01ukyeKLgoLGweoh 5v3wLUca68/Szvfef19GvXgJ6aMl8iQvxBXDt03NcnwMSPSG3ISaHQ9Fp1AptoiR 0MtheN+NQGQ0QpXhczTQUTmm44hkMZFeLTvMKklCK6zHysrasE956v5CZTBve3ur t7JzyzTrYu364wSj+xisXksPntqNHFBFixXgTn5zIEVQPPgPx8uMD4hPky6O9KlL +fXqvWOqE5EJqzBGpQ0vtIKqqar/dMRPaKPAzlUcA/TA1Apq/yHzXtpdnk+v7nUn x5ZPnAvfPpH/9QbBHVDEw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedrfedtledguddujecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefkffggfgfuvfhfhfgjtgfgsehtjeertddtvdejnecuhfhrohhmpefrvght vghrucfurghinhhtqdetnhgurhgvuceoshhtphgvthgvrhesshhtphgvthgvrhdrihhmqe enucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeevueeigeevteegleehteejjeetgeekffegffetkeektdfh vddtueduteejieejveenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrih hlfhhrohhmpehsthhpvghtvghrsehsthhpvghtvghrrdhimh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i24394279:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 14:03:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <72c093f6-3ac6-4e8e-9bc4-af8b05f54758@stpeter.im> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 12:03:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US To: "Dale R. Worley" , urn@ietf.org References: <87wmrr7v8n.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> From: Peter Saint-Andre Autocrypt: addr=stpeter@stpeter.im; keydata= xsFNBFETDzsBEAC0FOv1N3ZJzIIxN6cKD475KVS9CHDPeYpegcOIPnL5eY1DCHeh/IwS1S7R CePtmiybNoV9FsI4PKUknzXQxA6LVEdAR/LUlhgJKjq+gsgp8lqbEILhg13ecH66HwLS9rar bQkC47T7kL8miIPBFC6E3A4Lq1L+eueO6UcLhKgoYkMxOjdiWrMgKTnVpch5ydLkPm/z0Zo8 zRgqlPuTLeCrXXZYnjHXLVFN2xy04UzOs7P5u5KVfx5Z7uQisr8pXtyLd6SpTZo6SHgKBv15 uz0rqXhsJojiGtOXfWznAjaS5FUOORq9CklG5cMOUAT8TNftv0ktsxaWDL1ELDVQPy1m7mtz o+VREG+0xmU6AjMo/GHblW1UU7MI9yCiuMLsp/HLrFuiosqLVZ85wuLQ2junPe3tK8h15Ucx IXAcpQ1VqIaDQFbeuLOXJTF8YHpHdpHYt/ZM1ll7ZBKGAo8yd7uF7wJ9D3gUazwdz9fFjWV7 oIk7ATwOlFllzmWDn+M2ygbHOGUGMX5hSaa8eDSieiR2QoLdn27Fip7kMBTJ2+GISrfnJTN/ OQvmj0DXXAdxHmu2C4QgmZbkge35n129yzXn9NcqzrGLroV62lL3LgX6cSbiH5i7GgWY6CAP b1pMogV0K475n9FvOSDRiG4QSO5yqKiA3OP5aKrIRp2TNAk4IwARAQABzSZQZXRlciBTYWlu dC1BbmRyZSA8c3RwZXRlckBzdHBldGVyLmltPsLBeQQTAQIAIwUCURMPOwIbAwcLCQgHAwIB BhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEOoGpJErxa2p6bgQAKpxu07cMDOLc4+EG8H19NWXIVVy bOEvfGuHYZaLKkPrhrMZwJiOwBpyISNRt9qzX1eLCVaojaoEVX6kD8MGc5zKFfiJZy3j7lBW l+Ybr7FfXYy2BbAXKx49e1n6ci9LmBrmVfAEaxtDNPITZ9N9oUAb9vS0nrG036EwteEHAveQ vlDjO7lhz6+Cv7lZQgBj9rZ6khfcQ4S3nSCQaKLQ9Iav4fqxI7SfuPKnx6quHX3JNLGnVo3w l+j/foCK0iTrmtHxCI3kc/bx6g32pRjHEPX0ALMBhmzU2uca+TE0zCEC96mgYXAUCwdnCFWy beIEbt6pz65iML13kAVAq0H/GqncnMGN0MbOatnw1Tdz/vkLojIy7QbPcQ0plUFxv5491xPf IrHhOWdRXp6WUt88fcqhT6MHZpVRtusj2ornKVVn+Y0GLsMMCTcrXJRG7Ao1YV72t/pJpzfG WSaaxolxDIZ6B+76jrIhUhiWgo/4nf+DN6BIlCZQ6j6xxjjx462cu02kuhIILTk2pzaMOufT BWx0uJhZk/KP2Fay/41pX7pvVOwRC4uIlKsLnJKLPS7EDa4BUUxENfd/9LqOGwlII8BbSe98 PLMI8sXkcigc3UXMVda9ll0YhQa+lbP1NaszmnBhwuiCsgnPGbImsJuRzgEEgckwP/dNeyr6 MlFMyfaezsFNBFETDzsBEADBzOsEHpUmhkRUjH9Tek87dn5P/Yh/L/HptgCGk40TL/C+kYdk d3HyteMEf061PNmsS/Rq8k37Fu3VODYb9SPYKxtgksKSYUtIkPKvao09K9QNWPqyWuNf0F+i AjVMUudaEVFJ7bHF310RDwLY5IvLeCXxtvG+Vv/i+g77d2WdPDp+zLJ8306C4yBKjSJV8xW0 cn2fd7NviIEN6cNHTsZNDZVMlgYPrxnwSq8GTEPGC7HsLIwGcx3hIe9QjnPw9CpAmQENpDEy WcxgF5uwo2NJECoDswKz1Nb0gfawF3ZIbD+GcLujTu94iJuVg25jATWm9wTgcfZo4UPllRGX dIb8uWwUFQlLQgd4ROLZZtXNGmHIymJrV2crx53gxup+1j0XqhlzKg8xbImWhEfS9oHZkRK8 VHgmWSIt7TNwNir6N5j3lqwWVBhnu6GzF01sKGNySlqNRbd0fqhakCkK71b8ot8tYTcYG5Lg 10z6HTbgQx2UwLthUjqbblDQ+GLmrOhiWklLXRsnlnPMwnEyFePAnsT5tasy2Cn9qjpttNDa h7PB8iFUi9mtTF/XDVgpFaB5G3CDV7Q2NgbAI6g6QhLIAmXzSP635G83mda0TKXHQXHDyLJT Tn+WVFU7t4m4uLt+0DsWU8jXHQWyUTNG9WPUrXhusDUAPHxFCQ/n/lQVBwARAQABwsFfBBgB AgAJBQJREw87AhsMAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pqfgP/ApN+TRu2bBIgaw1dr3AznSSha84DIpXUDh3 udZvQrGbUtz8/mA+e3iZEN/cmmBw2LGlAuQoJNILTZQ318yTP+E5QU7fJH7FVsohUyvrMfyt 3IMA9jg0Z9MuloLezvIjjMfFeNa0ROgDb/ubOT7JQzi1kwN8Lu3lO80HwqBHXEeOLoislUSn ZajRKvITbKWkZ6PHRjlMw1Wk4oIi6VLHgGgj79zzL3uhML2663m7imShvz1QcHTwvyR5i8cZ bNOEkotZyERiA1p7YHuruS+QvTi3ZPoQbnMUB3a7py9d11bw1+w3LiAUGZE/z5hBWOFxYtw+ w/U/Vx0BwJGYlwU3M2W20uEXe+qxz7wnakygKjmLiD2z4njfKjcNCiV3FmXrpmWgADln1c4j fxDh0NrndrsM8FPDf1TMPtOZgFDkKripc9xkZ/25P6xn27oTOHWKcAC0QhxSH+HuVBBRk8Ag F+zAbDZe4/L6+kanSrycIXW+wCzwBq61aWsz2QhhuKjozVkhk4dRG+CfjzAFjnyxwYERn3uX VKQAwTwcdNcTI9RV98IsNrw9Y4lJEAg6CjNPmiD5+EASycqaOuToRSGukr8sOQLWLPyTnez/ aG8Xf7a+fntWzK2HuDYoSDhJJrylWw/lMklOBm4wtMeNA0zcQH6AQV/GzQVQkSGqrLuMVIV/ In-Reply-To: <87wmrr7v8n.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] corporate URN namespaces X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 19:03:49 -0000 On 1/29/24 1:14 PM, Dale R. Worley wrote: > Peter Saint-Andre writes: >> I'm curious how community participants and expert review team members >> see the matter. > > Hmmmm... I'm not so concerned by circumscribed organizations creating > their own pseudo-URNs for their internal usage. I am concerned, though, > about a namespace that's meant to be used to interoperate between > systems operated by many organizations, but the details of the namespace > are not made public. This happens particularly when a trade group > standardizes a bundle of technology but keeps the details secret. > "*This* part of the Internet is private to members of the club!" Even > in the situation of the Thread Group, where it seems anybody can obtain > the details, but nobody is allowed to discuss them in public. To your first point about circumscribed organizations, when I worked at Cisco 10+ years ago, engineers on a project I was advising wanted to create a namespace "urn:cisco". That would have been convenient for them, but no one proposed reasonable governance for the namespace (e.g., Cisco has multiple CTO offices for different product lines, so it wouldn't have been easy to centralize issuance of URNs, although perhaps folks could have used "sub-namespaces"). In the end I believe the project decided to use HTTP URIs as XML namespace names, not URNs. But yes, that kind of thing would have been tucked away in a single company's product. I suppose the same is true of what LinkedIn and Amazon are doing in the examples I mentioned. We need to ask ourselves whether we really care about such things. Perhaps I'm making a mountain out of a molehill... Peter