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From: tiepilab@gmx.de
To: "Lars G. Svensson" <lars.svensson=40web.de@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2026 20:51:06 +0000
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Message-ID-Hash: 2UWO5U2VNETW7CHDPYAEVOC24G54TS6I
CC: urn@ietf.org
Precedence: list
Subject: =?utf-8?q?=5Burn=5D_Re=3A_Request_for_Registration_of_CTS_namespace?=
Archived-At: 
 <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/urn/N5ydJS_YIPqBYGCHHBbwGAq_rLI>

<html><body>Dear all,<br><br>I try to sketch out something based on my unde=
rstanding of everyone's interests=2E If you don't veto this sketch, I would=
 describe it to the academy in the next round in the upcoming week and get =
their feedback=2E<br><br><br>IANA hosts the official registry that maps dat=
a namespaces to URLs and whatever info about the registrant and data proven=
ence is useful in any format that fits=2E<br><br>Based on that everyone can=
 build a technical mapping similiar to a DNS server, with minimal informati=
on, to be used by programming interfaces=2E (The goal here is to decentrali=
se the server load so that not every program inside the infrastructure call=
s up the IANA server)=2E <br>How this works and how often it updates is up =
to the host=2E Responsible hosts should use the official registry as the so=
urce, but it is also open to their discretion what they map (e=2Eg=2E schol=
ary contexts might want to have demo-namespaces without making them permane=
nt)=2E I would host one for my project (as I do now)=2E<br><br>The academy =
opens a contact for "semi-registration" that is then responsible for an off=
icial registration at IANA for relevant data sets (the goal here is to be a=
ble to experiment with new - maybe temporary - data sets and also have a st=
ructured process so that not everyone requests IANA registration individual=
ly)=2E <br>CTS URNs are then only official, if the IANA registration&nbsp;s=
ucceeds=2E This would reduce your workload as you would not have to explain=
 the same things to different institutions=2E The Text+ / CLARIN context of=
 the academy would be perfect to streamline that in the German research are=
a and would be a very attractive new role for the academy=2E It would also =
sketch out, how the issue of unregistered CTS URNs is handled, that will pr=
bly not go away (they exist, but are less reliable / trustworthy)<br><br><b=
r>The goal of the work package would then be to have the process laid out i=
n 2028 and - as proof - register each text corpus known in my project throu=
gh that process=2E Then some kind of paper / publication and the registry p=
rocess goes productive=2E<br><br><br>Could that be a structural solution th=
at fits?<br><br><br>Best Regards<br>Jochen<br><br><br><div class=3D"signatu=
re">--<br>Text Service Infrastructure<br><a href=3D"https://urncts=2Eeu">ht=
tps://urncts=2Eeu</a><br><br>DH-Digilab<br><a href=3D"https://dhdigilab=2Ee=
u">https://dhdigilab=2Eeu</a></div><div class=3D"mail_android_quote" style=
=3D"line-height: 1"><br><meta name=3D"viewport" content=3D"width=3Ddevice-w=
idth"><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/vnd=2Eui=2Einsecure=
+html;charset=3Dutf-8"><div class=3D"mail_android_quote" style=3D"line-heig=
ht: 1"><br>Am 18=2E06=2E26, 10:50 schrieb "Lars G=2E Svensson" &lt;lars=2Es=
vensson=3D<a href=3D"http://40web=2Ede">40web=2Ede</a>@<a href=3D"http://dm=
arc=2Eietf=2Eorg">dmarc=2Eietf=2Eorg</a>&gt;:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin: 0=2E8ex 0pt 0pt 0=2E8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(20=
4, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Dear Jochen, all,<br>
<br>
I, too, find Dale's idea having a registry hosted by IANA attractive=2E<br=
>
<br>
&gt; Do you think IANA could provide a repo that maps data namespaces to s=
erver URLs?<br>
<br>
I think that's perfectly possible=2E We could use a format along the lines=
 of (taking data from &lt;<a href=3D"https://urncts=2Eeu/">https://urncts=
=2Eeu/</a>&gt;):<br>
<br>
<br>
&lt;namespace&gt;      		Registrant     					Registrant contact data	Serve=
r URL<br>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----------------------------------------------------------------<br> ancJew=
Lit &lt;Whoever=2E=2E=2E&gt; ancjewlit@<a href=3D"http://example=2Ecom">exa=
mple=2Ecom</a><a href=3D"https://example=2Ecom/ancJewLit">https://example=
=2Ecom/ancJewLit</a><br> dhd Verband Digital Humanities im dhd-urn-registry=
@<a href=3D"http://example=2Eorg">example=2Eorg</a><a href=3D"https://examp=
le=2Eorg/dhd">https://example=2Eorg/dhd</a><br>
				deutschsprachigen Raum e=2EV=2E	<br>
=2E=2E=2E<br>
<br>
That registry would - of course - be only text or html, but if done in xht=
ml it should be easy to build an automated process that at intervals downlo=
ads the registry and builds an application that resolves namespaces to endp=
oint urls=2E<br>
<br>
&gt; I don't think there is anything we can do about people creating CTS U=
RNs<br>
&gt; without proper registration, all we can do is create clear rules that=
<br>
&gt; allow us to say that they are nonconforming=2E<br>
<br>
Yes, there are many cases of urn-squatting out there, urn:li comes to mind=
=2E=2E=2E<br>
<br>
&gt;&gt; And finally I don't see, how a central registry could prevent<br>
&gt;&gt; "namespace brokers" from registering and selling namespaces to<br=
>
&gt;&gt; academic institutions=2E In a decentralised registry, this busine=
ss<br>
&gt;&gt; model cannot appear=2E<br>
	<br>
&gt; I think the situation is similar to domain names, in that there are m=
any<br>
&gt; alternative forms of the name of an institution or project, and it is=
<br>
&gt; unlikely that brokers will have speculatively registered all of them=
=2E<br>
<br>
If we make it a prerequisite for registration that registrants can only be=
 academic institutions or organisations working on their behalf, that dange=
r could be circumvented=2E We would then, of course, need an expert committ=
ee that reviews new applications, similar to the urn review group!<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Lars<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Nachricht-----<br> Von: tiepilab=3D<a href=3D"http=
://40gmx=2Ede">40gmx=2Ede</a>@<a href=3D"http://dmarc=2Eietf=2Eorg">dmarc=
=2Eietf=2Eorg</a> [mailto:tiepilab=3D<a href=3D"http://40gmx=2Ede">40gmx=2E=
de</a>@<a href=3D"http://dmarc=2Eietf=2Eorg">dmarc=2Eietf=2Eorg</a>]<br>
Gesendet: Montag, 15=2E Juni 2026 08:16<br> An: Dale R=2E Worley &lt;worle=
y@<a href=3D"http://ariadne=2Ecom">ariadne=2Ecom</a>&gt;<br> Cc: urn@<a hre=
f=3D"http://ietf=2Eorg">ietf=2Eorg</a><br>
Betreff: [urn] Re: Request for Registration of CTS namespace<br>
<br>
That is heloful to know as it sets a clear goal=2E<br>
<br>
Do you think IANA could provide a repo that maps data namespaces to server=
 URLs?<br>
<br>
I use such a (private) repo to direct the programming APIs to the servers=
=2E The idea was to host that repo at the academy instead=2E<br>
<br>
If IANA registers data namespaces, it might be a good idea to have the cor=
e repo located at IANA(?) and allow users to clone that(?)<br>
<br>
(Technically it is a trivial key-value mapping)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br> Am 13=2E06=2E26, 04:46 schrieb "Dale R=2E Worley" &lt;worley@<a href=
=3D"http://ariadne=2Ecom">ariadne=2Ecom</a> &lt;<a href=3D"http://ariadne=
=2Ecom">http://ariadne=2Ecom</a>&gt; &gt;:<br>
<br> tiepilab=3D<a href=3D"http://40gmx=2Ede">40gmx=2Ede</a> &lt;<a href=
=3D"http://40gmx=2Ede">http://40gmx=2Ede</a>&gt; @<a href=3D"http://dmarc=
=2Eietf=2Eorg">dmarc=2Eietf=2Eorg</a> &lt;<a href=3D"http://dmarc=2Eietf=2E=
org">http://dmarc=2Eietf=2Eorg</a>&gt;  writes:<br>
	&gt; I don't have a a full list=2E The namespaces that are connected to m=
y<br>
	&gt; project are listed at <a href=3D"https://urncts=2Eeu">https://urncts=
=2Eeu</a>=2E<br>
	<br>
	That page lists 19 data namespaces, which shows that there is<br>
	significant user support for CTS=2E<br>
	<br>
	&gt; The registration process will be an interesting topic to discuss=2E =
I<br>
	&gt; understand your comment in a way that leads to a central authority=
=2E<br>
	&gt; My abstract idea is an open registration, hosted *somewhere* that<br=
>
	&gt; works purely on FCFS without an authority that decides who may or ma=
y<br>
	&gt; not register a new namespace as long as it does not collide=2E With =
the<br>
	&gt; option to choose your registry similiar to how you can choose your D=
NS<br>
	&gt; provider=2E Choosing your registry would also limit the harm that co=
uld<br>
	&gt; arise from misuse=2E<br>
	<br>
	We definitely need a registration system in order to ensure URN<br>
	uniqueness, which is a requirement of URN registration -- organizations<b=
r>
	need to know what possible URNs they are allowed to create=2E If we get<b=
r>
	an IANA registry established under "FCFS" policy, then there is no<br>
	restriction regarding who may register which new data namespace=2E Also,<=
br>
	registration with IANA would implicitly put each data namespace owner on<=
br>
	notice that they had to adhere to the registered CTS syntax=2E<br>
	<br>
	And I do see it as a problem that we need to ensure the users of CTS<br>
	conform to the proper syntax=2E<br>
	<br>
	It would be straightforward to establish an IANA registry=2E It would<br>
	take a great deal of work to establish a system with multiple<br>
	registrars=2E And it might not be possible to recruit multiple<br>
	registrars, whereas the IESG can direct IANA to operate a registry=2E<br>
	<br>
	In regard to trusting IANA to carry out its duties correctly =2E=2E=2E If=
 IANA<br>
	doesn't function well, the Internet has many more problems than just<br>
	CTS=2E<br>
	<br>
	Although if you see a way to do decentralized allocation of data<br>
	namespaces, I would like to see the details=2E<br>
	<br>
	&gt; Another issue with a central registry might come from the domain=2E =
It<br>
	&gt; seems that the need to register namespaces is not very strong in the=
<br>
	&gt; humanities :) =2E The problem with unregistered URNs would escalate<=
br>
	&gt; further if new data sets appear without registration=2E A decentrali=
sed<br>
	&gt; registry would eliminate this problem because then it is the users<b=
r>
	&gt; responsibility=2E<br>
	<br>
	I don't think there is anything we can do about people creating CTS URNs<=
br>
	without proper registration, all we can do is create clear rules that<br>
	allow us to say that they are nonconforming=2E<br>
	<br>
	&gt; And finally I don't see, how a central registry could prevent<br>
	&gt; "namespace brokers" from registering and selling namespaces to<br>
	&gt; academic institutions=2E In a decentralised registry, this business<=
br>
	&gt; model cannot appear=2E<br>
	<br>
	I think the situation is similar to domain names, in that there are many<=
br>
	alternative forms of the name of an institution or project, and it is<br>
	unlikely that brokers will have speculatively registered all of them=2E<b=
r>
	<br>
	Dale<br>
	<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div></body></html>