Re: [urn] Moving ahead with draft-spinosa-urn-lex

"Hakala, Juha E" <juha.hakala@helsinki.fi> Wed, 02 May 2018 04:41 UTC

Return-Path: <juha.hakala@helsinki.fi>
X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECF14127444 for <urn@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 1 May 2018 21:41:18 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.911
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=helsinkifi.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8N66-qZSWwJU for <urn@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 1 May 2018 21:41:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EUR02-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr00121.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.0.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7656912D7F8 for <urn@ietf.org>; Tue, 1 May 2018 21:41:13 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=HelsinkiFI.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-helsinki-fi; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=HTUdO9zmPF6zQWmSDN5EiuEDwdLgvLik/GPv40ZZLXA=; b=EAbEhhB0y2l9P/hRPb3isEQMAiZYsSfvwUdHV9f2quDZKFcB4sT7w7sGD0losAepWutoa7g8OGW2Flyw0cYQt5dvYyLR0ivnVfIGboS+lLiRepTmczdjUzNX5DnxuDm0lT2lgTL2PrDK807+qyeYS1V+a2I93adrBA/zU4EzWXk=
Received: from HE1PR07MB3097.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.170.244.159) by HE1PR07MB3322.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.170.246.145) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.735.6; Wed, 2 May 2018 04:41:09 +0000
Received: from HE1PR07MB3097.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::fc60:af8e:7ebe:f6ef]) by HE1PR07MB3097.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::fc60:af8e:7ebe:f6ef%5]) with mapi id 15.20.0735.008; Wed, 2 May 2018 04:41:09 +0000
From: "Hakala, Juha E" <juha.hakala@helsinki.fi>
To: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im>, Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>, "Dale R. Worley" <worley@ariadne.com>
CC: Alexey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm>, "L.Svensson@dnb.de" <L.Svensson@dnb.de>, "caterina.lupo@gmail.com" <caterina.lupo@gmail.com>, "enrico.francesconi@ittig.cnr.it" <enrico.francesconi@ittig.cnr.it>, "john-ietf@jck.com" <john-ietf@jck.com>, "pierluigi.spinosa@gmail.com" <pierluigi.spinosa@gmail.com>, "urn@ietf.org" <urn@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Moving ahead with draft-spinosa-urn-lex
Thread-Index: AQHT4OTWpxRZY3Yii0KS2nIhvYuPGaQaUw4AgAF1j4CAABT3AA==
Date: Wed, 2 May 2018 04:41:09 +0000
Message-ID: <HE1PR07MB30975E39A13B60145998977BFA800@HE1PR07MB3097.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <72446a5a-ec31-cc7e-d00a-11029ed941b3@stpeter.im> <87a7tk6wgz.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> <CALaySJK5Rqv2_A_ZA7wxLJGUxPuLEmQDewOtfTEnvAbrpRjV7A@mail.gmail.com> <ac897b55-ab6d-f091-8968-24979e874ae3@stpeter.im>
In-Reply-To: <ac897b55-ab6d-f091-8968-24979e874ae3@stpeter.im>
Accept-Language: fi-FI, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=juha.hakala@helsinki.fi;
x-originating-ip: [128.214.147.95]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; HE1PR07MB3322; 7:fjXAEron6d7LJzVJS4kEG/AmrwgX98QB2erQ2rJU6na2fR/bGHKJhnB4SSC6ygn0zIbkwJqdUAaW75llrNAMhSsLMhsXqVatFsC4ZivNF7V7UVetWh4jIX8OIbtwCAt1dNF3YckAgtnauT63k/TfzCOWNUe6e/1XvoKofeMHy76QVlrR/MuPs56OwfhKV8ECqPYPyRNjML1O27e5odKc4CY14UkAhDva2R+WprXvi4s/+FwmKDaREsn84SlAX7Pe
x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SOS;
x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:(104073047261496); BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(7020095)(4652020)(8989080)(5600026)(4534165)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990040)(2017052603328)(7153060)(7193020); SRVR:HE1PR07MB3322;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: HE1PR07MB3322:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <HE1PR07MB3322E4FB96633BA35383FEF6FA800@HE1PR07MB3322.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(85827821059158)(157537322789937)(100405760836317)(104073047261496);
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6040522)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(93006095)(93001095)(3231254)(11241501184)(806099)(944501410)(52105095)(3002001)(10201501046)(6041310)(201703131423095)(201702281529075)(201702281528075)(20161123555045)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123558120)(20161123564045)(20161123560045)(20161123562045)(6072148)(201708071742011); SRVR:HE1PR07MB3322; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:HE1PR07MB3322;
x-forefront-prvs: 06607E485E
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(39860400002)(376002)(396003)(39380400002)(346002)(366004)(189003)(199004)(13464003)(68736007)(86362001)(6116002)(3846002)(229853002)(39060400002)(53376002)(6246003)(5250100002)(305945005)(97736004)(74316002)(7736002)(5660300001)(7416002)(966005)(478600001)(9686003)(6306002)(25786009)(53936002)(8676002)(8936002)(55016002)(81156014)(2900100001)(81166006)(8666007)(316002)(786003)(446003)(93886005)(14454004)(566704002)(3280700002)(3660700001)(66066001)(2906002)(105586002)(54906003)(110136005)(106356001)(486006)(11346002)(561944003)(6436002)(7696005)(33656002)(4326008)(99286004)(476003)(53546011)(59450400001)(74482002)(6506007)(26005)(76176011)(102836004)(186003)(336755003)(18886065003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1PR07MB3322; H:HE1PR07MB3097.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: helsinki.fi does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: WrtYrz530wlY6HoW8H1Jc4r1Nl3G4AZOb7VHtdD5z2Anj10Xk8++UYomAtEwrKSqZuCPjW/WE2F1bBRUxQVxi/WrQRdP5HRqEP9F5voFPu9hv5wJeTlFxVRbuf0mGQA51/xD6qxd25n9LdCznNKdJcLhThPQk5JmRj8SzYf/9tX6yPFZmw+Nof92tNmfxku7JBbwHzW3nHYIomMKYrxpQBbcfTVcTsjy7nFEVK1LI81BXqDE0KHNpLKlDMZlprR0
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: edcb674d-386c-486a-aeab-08d5afe6ed14
X-OriginatorOrg: helsinki.fi
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: edcb674d-386c-486a-aeab-08d5afe6ed14
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 May 2018 04:41:09.6466 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 98ae7559-10dc-4288-8e2e-4593e62fe3ee
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB3322
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/urn/anRUOsUWuv_ZxZK2gn7JPqhXZ34>
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 01 May 2018 21:43:01 -0700
Subject: Re: [urn] Moving ahead with draft-spinosa-urn-lex
X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs <urn.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/urn>, <mailto:urn-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/urn/>
List-Post: <mailto:urn@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:urn-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/urn>, <mailto:urn-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2018 04:41:19 -0000

Hello, 

no objections from me either. 

Juha

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im> 
Sent: keskiviikko 2. toukokuuta 2018 6.25
To: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>; Dale R. Worley <worley@ariadne.com>
Cc: Alexey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm>; L.Svensson@dnb.de; caterina.lupo@gmail.com; enrico.francesconi@ittig.cnr.it; john-ietf@jck.com; Hakala, Juha E <juha.hakala@helsinki.fi>; pierluigi.spinosa@gmail.com; urn@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Moving ahead with draft-spinosa-urn-lex

No objections here!

On 4/30/18 11:08 PM, Barry Leiba wrote:
> Thanks for this, Dale: this seems like a reasonable way forward to me, 
> at this time.
> Do others agree?
> 
> Barry
> 
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 8:39 PM Dale R. Worley <worley@ariadne.com 
> <mailto:worley@ariadne.com>> wrote:
> 
>     My apologies for not working on this earlier.
> 
>     The current draft of "urn-lex" is draft-spinosa-urn-lex-12.  People have
>     criticized its proposed URN system in many ways, but it seems to me that
>     most of the criticisms are "bibliographic", they concern good ways to
>     create identifiers for written works.  As such, the IETF is not a good
>     forum for correcting most of those problems.
> 
>     My proposal is that we implement "rough consensus and running code" --
>     obtain a usable registration of the "lex" URN namespace so that the
>     authors and ITTIG can put the "lex" URNs into practice.  The process of
>     using the URNs will educate the authors regarding the correct resolution
>     of the various problems, and will likely cause them to later submit a
>     revised registration.
> 
>     That is, the registration we create at this time will be understood to
>     be experimental in nature.
> 
>     In order to be suitable as an "experimental" registration, there are a
>     few problems that must be resolved:
> 
>     1. The URN syntax must conform to the generic URN syntax.
> 
>     2. The requirements of uniqueness and persistence must be met.  (That
>     is, any URN designates at most one resource, and the resource that it
>     designates must not change over time.  However, it is permissible to
>     have multiple URNs designate the same resource.)
> 
>     3. The process or authority that assigns each URN must be well-defined.
> 
>     Item 1 is taken care of, in that the syntax in -12 conforms (as far as I
>     can tell) to the URN syntax in RFC 8141.
> 
>     Item 2 is the responsibility of the Jurisdictional Registrars, in the
>     same way that the naming authorities of many other URN namespaces are
>     responsible for uniqueness and persistence.
> 
>     Item 3 requires that a registry of jurisdiction codes and Jurisdictional
>     Registrars be maintained.  Section 11.2 of the -12 draft proposes that
>     IANA maintain the registry.  Given the experimental nature of the URN
>     registration, it seems to me to be premature to involve IANA, especially
>     since the principles that the Designated Export must implement are
>     likely to change over time.  Instead, it seems to me that the best
>     choice for registrar is ITTIG-CNR, the proposer and developer of the URN
>     namespace.
> 
>     When the namespace definition is transitioned to a non-experimental
>     status (including fixing a good set of policies to assign jurisdiction
>     codes), the registry can be transferred to IANA to implement the proven
>     policies.
> 
>     Following this path requires only small changes for -13, viz., updating
>     section 11.2.
> 
>     Dale
>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Archived discussions:
> 
>     https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/urn/current/msg03828.html
>     16 Nov 2017
>     "urn:lex draft v. 12"
> 
>     https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/urn/current/msg03811.html
>     starting 20 Sep 2017
>     "Request for new URN namespace review: LEX"
>     Message-Id:
>     <1505909590.1544977.1112321704.5FEB92F9@webmail.messagingengine.com
>     
> <mailto:1505909590.1544977.1112321704.5FEB92F9@webmail.messagingengine
> .com>>
> 
>     https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/urn-nid/current/msg01270.html
>     starting 29 Apr 2014
>     "Publication request for draft-spinosa-urn-lex"
>     Message-Id:
>     <CALaySJJk5YiCQZqt6WoWkqfAzi2A04HEAH=vG0pVAy8e45N5aQ@mail.gmail.com
>     <mailto:vG0pVAy8e45N5aQ@mail.gmail.com>>
> 
>     https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/urn-nid/current/msg01204.html
>     starting 27 Mar 2013
>     "Application for a formal URN NID"
>     Message-Id: <23A64284-6B03-4B24-B680-54A61E96BECA at ittig.cnr.it
>     <http://ittig.cnr.it>>
> 
>     https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/urn-nid/current/msg01059.html
>     15 Oct 2009
>     "URN LEX Namespace submission"
> 
> --
> Barry
> --
> Barry Leiba  (barryleiba@computer.org 
> <mailto:barryleiba@computer.org>) 
> http://internetmessagingtechnology.org/