Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-uta-tls-bcp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> Thu, 19 February 2015 06:28 UTC
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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 01:28:00 -0500
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From: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>
To: Brian Smith <brian@briansmith.org>
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Cc: "uta@ietf.org" <uta@ietf.org>, Pete Resnick <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Peter Saint-Andre - &yet <peter@andyet.net>
Subject: Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-uta-tls-bcp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 1:26 AM, Brian Smith <brian@briansmith.org> wrote: > Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> wrote: > > Pete Resnick <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com> wrote: > >> Until we are able to get better community consensus on this topic and > how > >> to explain it in documents, I think (and I believe the WG agrees) that > the > >> right thing to say is, "This document isn't talking about OS" and leave > it > >> at that, which is what the document now says. > > > > It's wrong to just throw up our hands and give carte blanche just > because we > > might need to red-line a few things. At most, we should say something > like, > > "OS is a work in progress; until further notice, use this as a baseline > and > > deviate to the minimal extent possible." > > The working group agreed that unauthenticated TLS is out of scope for > the document. Saying anything other than unauthenticated TLS is out of > scope would misrepresent the working group's consensus.As others > pointed out, if and how much of this document is appropriate for > unauthenticated TLS is very unclear and deciding that would add a lot > of delay to the publication of the document. > > The working group already decided to defer much more serious and more > widely-relevant issues (like the complete lack of any recommendations > regarding ECDSA cipher suites, despite these being the most > interoperable AES-GCM cipher suites available and the best ones for > server-side performance, or the fact that the document recommends DHE > cipher suites despite clear evidence that DHE cipher suites are a > minefield) in the interests of getting the document published on a > reasonable schedule. > > IMO, unauthenticated TLS is so different from secure use of TLS that > it deserves its own document once we've learned what the *best* > *current* practices for unauthenticated TLS are, which we currently do > not know. > I'm curious how you think unauthenticated TLS is so dramatically different. I mean, WebRTC connections are all unauthenticated, and they look exactly the same on the wire as authenticated connections -- the endpoints just don't check the certs. --Richard > > Cheers, > Brian >
- [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-uta-t… Richard Barnes
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Pete Resnick
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Peter Saint-Andre - &yet
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Richard Barnes
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Richard Barnes
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Pete Resnick
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Brian Smith
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Richard Barnes
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Brian Smith
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Leif Johansson
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Richard Barnes
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Ralph Holz
- Re: [Uta] Modular vs. modp Peter Saint-Andre - &yet
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Peter Saint-Andre - &yet
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Richard Barnes
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Peter Saint-Andre - &yet
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Richard Barnes
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Richard Barnes
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Pete Resnick
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Richard Barnes
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Peter Saint-Andre - &yet
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Peter Saint-Andre - &yet
- [Uta] Modular vs. modp (was: Richard Barnes' Disc… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Richard Barnes
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Richard Barnes
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Leif Johansson
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Leif Johansson
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Peter Saint-Andre - &yet
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Pete Resnick
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… t.p.
- Re: [Uta] Richard Barnes' Discuss on draft-ietf-u… Pete Resnick