[V3] High level comments on the RIPT charter and scope
Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> Fri, 27 March 2020 14:24 UTC
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From: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
To: "v3@ietf.org" <v3@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: High level comments on the RIPT charter and scope
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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2020 14:23:59 +0000
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Subject: [V3] High level comments on the RIPT charter and scope
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Hi, So this is my personal opinion and based on my long work with RTP. Yes, there are clearly interest in chartering some work in IETF. Howver, I think there is significant diversity in what people are interested in actually happening. Clearly there is the signalling protocol for seession/call establishment and control between peering provider nodes. Lets call this the outbound part. The main issue I see in this area is the quetion of feature creap. It would be good to figure out what core functionality is really needed and actually get that described in a charter. A Question is if conference applications impacts this scope or not. The next part is the inbound problem, i.e. having end-user devices/application being able to register to their provider as being ready to receive/answer calls. This may actually be sufficient similar to the outbound part that they can be done in the same WG. However, an interesting question for both of the above is if the solution is required to be able to be implemented in a browser, at least the client part. I think the signalling is fairly straight forward to be able to implement in JS as long as we ignore the media. The third big part is the media transport. I think we need to strongly consider if this can be broken out in to it seperate WG. There are several aspects here. First of the split in expertise between the media transport and the signalling folks. The next aspect is the resuability of the media transport, that anyway need to be define as individual reusable protocol component that is not dependent on the signalling. I don't see a huge problem with being able to initiate a media transport channel into the relevant server node using an initial HTTP request. I am thinking WebSocket like establishment of the media transport channel here. And possibly there will be need for a fallback to HTTP only, but also that should be further discussed. I am also very worried that if the model for the media transport is only point to point calls then we get something that will become obsolete or at least need hacks immediately. This thing need to support centralized conferences with cascaded or meshed central media nodes. So I think it is cruical that one define the usage model with switched central nodes and have that in mind so that one can actually support the applications needed. I think by defining a strict model one can actually avoid a lot of feature creep in the media transport. We also have use cases that has practical total overlapp, namely real-time sensor streaming services, where cameras, and other frequently sampling sensors send data of real-time control loop nature. There is also the media industries need for content contribution, i.e. how to get camera's media into the production centers. These are similar enough and need of standardized protocols. SRT in Dispatch is only one aspect of this. What we don't need to take on for this is the one-to-many distribution only. So broadcast and multicast can be declared out of scope. I think E2E media secruity need to be defined from day one. It will be a central part of these systems even if in the legacy interconnect there will be the termination in gateways. Also media processing nodes can be included but the inclusion of them in the trust will need to be explicit in this model. People have been voicing that we don't need things to work as well as RTP. I think in fact that a dedicated real-time media over QUIC (with datagram) can actually achieve better than RTP performance by using a mix of reliable and semi-reliable transport primitives on applciation data unit level, i.e. audio and video frames. The next media transport issue that was barely discussed in the BOF is the legacy (RTP) interoperate question. This is going to come back in the scope discussion and do needs at least a direction. Coming back to my initial statement about diversity, I think there at least two communities that are interested in this. And I think we actually need to attempt to make relevant protocol work for both these communities. For the moment the most outspoken people in this effort have been the signalling people. The media transport crowd have been waiting for their turn until QUIC to matured sufficiently to be a realistic start. But as people know some discussion have happened. However we are this point now I think where work can start in ernest also on this topic. So can we seriously consider writing two different charter that together enable the intended use cases? Cheers Magnus Westerlund ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Networks, Ericsson Research ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------
- [V3] High level comments on the RIPT charter and … Magnus Westerlund
- [V3] Centralized conference media Cullen Jennings
- Re: [V3] High level comments on the RIPT charter … Cullen Jennings
- [V3] Gateway new to old Cullen Jennings
- Re: [V3] Centralized conference media Justin Uberti
- Re: [V3] Gateway new to old Justin Uberti
- Re: [V3] Centralized conference media Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [V3] Gateway new to old Colin Perkins
- Re: [V3] Gateway new to old Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [V3] Gateway new to old Joerg Ott
- Re: [V3] Gateway new to old Cullen Jennings
- Re: [V3] High level comments on the RIPT charter … Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [V3] Gateway new to old Cullen Jennings
- Re: [V3] Centralized conference media Cullen Jennings
- Re: [V3] High level comments on the RIPT charter … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [V3] Gateway new to old Justin Uberti