Re: [V3] High level comments on the RIPT charter and scope
Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> Mon, 30 March 2020 14:37 UTC
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From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 09:37:07 -0500
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To: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: "fluffy@iii.ca" <fluffy@iii.ca>, "v3@ietf.org" <v3@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [V3] High level comments on the RIPT charter and scope
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For what it's worth, On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 8:44 AM Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund= 40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > On Fri, 2020-03-27 at 10:19 -0600, Cullen Jennings wrote: > > > > > > > On Mar 27, 2020, at 8:23 AM, Magnus Westerlund < > > > magnus.westerlund=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > > > > > The third big part is the media transport. I think we need to strongly > > > consider > > > if this can be broken out in to it seperate WG. > > > > I think the WG we are talking about here is the WG to do media of H3. So > we > > can talk about other things being in or out of it but that is the core > thing. > > > > I would like to point out that one of the design properties that has been > > making this easier is that media is self describing. What I mean by that > is > > that if a device receives media that is one of the supported formats and > > within in the limits of that device supports, the media has all the > > information the device needs to decode it. No out of band information > needed. > > That is key to making this easier to deal with HA and scalability on > cloud > > side. I think that is a good property for modern designs. We have been > going > > that way for a long time with things like opus and it works out well. > > So, let me ask a question here. How important is it be capable to transmitt > individual media ADU or even RTP payloads in a single HTTP request that > ripples > through the system independent compared to have a system that can in a > 0-rtt > fashion (re-)establish an point to point by initiating an HTTP request? > > Treating each media ADU as its own request potentially being routed in a > non- > sticky way will induce significant jitter would it not? The drafts talks > about > sticky routing, and I did notice some comments about that assumption > already. > Thus, from my perspective it appears that the high-performance target > would be > to establish an point to point quic based transport with the relevant > server > node that handles media forwarding. If that fails have a mechanism that can > rapidly re-establish that connection with what ever node that is now the > appointed one for the given call/conference. > > Then I do understand the desire to have a fallback, and maybe that is > plain HTTP > requests, but let that be the fallback and not the primary mechanism. > Becasue I > think that would unnecessary limit the potential of this system. > > > > > > here are several aspects here. > > > First of the split in expertise between the media transport and the > > > signalling > > > folks. > > > > I’m not sure what you mean by signalling but the the singling here was > mostly > > start media , stop media. It is not call routing, forking etc that is > done by > > SIP. > > Yes, but even session establishment and control is still signalling from my > perspective. > I've certainly been thinking of "everything except media payload" as signaling in my own comments. So, close to Magnus here, IIUC. If we don't have a common understanding of this (and it sounds like we might not), that would be a good thing to talk about during the charter development. Best, Spencer > Cheers > > Magnus Westerlund > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Networks, Ericsson Research > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 > Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 > SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- > V3 mailing list > V3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v3 >
- [V3] High level comments on the RIPT charter and … Magnus Westerlund
- [V3] Centralized conference media Cullen Jennings
- Re: [V3] High level comments on the RIPT charter … Cullen Jennings
- [V3] Gateway new to old Cullen Jennings
- Re: [V3] Centralized conference media Justin Uberti
- Re: [V3] Gateway new to old Justin Uberti
- Re: [V3] Centralized conference media Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [V3] Gateway new to old Colin Perkins
- Re: [V3] Gateway new to old Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [V3] Gateway new to old Joerg Ott
- Re: [V3] Gateway new to old Cullen Jennings
- Re: [V3] High level comments on the RIPT charter … Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [V3] Gateway new to old Cullen Jennings
- Re: [V3] Centralized conference media Cullen Jennings
- Re: [V3] High level comments on the RIPT charter … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [V3] Gateway new to old Justin Uberti