Re: [v4tov6transition] [Softwires] ISP support of Native IPv6 across NAT44 CPEs -Proposed 6a44 Specification

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Thu, 07 October 2010 22:46 UTC

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Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 11:47:36 +1300
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
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To: Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>
References: <C8D29306.3EDBD%yiu_lee@cable.comcast.com> <FC864BDE-D5C7-4EEF-AE66-18AF523CDB67@free.fr> <8F8FE644-4E46-4579-8D77-9C5613F6419E@employees.org> <0BEE26F5-AB86-407C-98B2-FACADF2BBC95@free.fr> <90B266CA-8D13-4F4C-8FED-273F07A3F7CE@employees.org>
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Cc: Softwires <softwires@ietf.org>, v4tov6transition@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [v4tov6transition] [Softwires] ISP support of Native IPv6 across NAT44 CPEs -Proposed 6a44 Specification
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Ole,

> I really liked the dongle idea by the way.

I'm not convinced. If people are willing to buy such a thing,
and if you are correct about $80 IPv6-enabled CPEs, I think the
latter will win.

So the real question for me is whether a $0 dollar download will beat
an $80 purchase. Predicting customer bahaviour is hard.

IMHO, we can put both on the market and see what happens.

Regards
   Brian

On 2010-10-08 08:28, Ole Troan wrote:
> Remi,
> 
> [...]
> 
>> ISPs that aren't concerned with what their customer would like to have will eventually face competition.
> 
> we are in complete agreement of the end goal. it is just how we get there...
> 
>> A key point is that supporting 6a44 is very inexpensive compared to other supports they have to envisage.
>>
>> Yet, as Yiu says, this still depends on which hosts will support 6a44.
>> My personal hope is that we will soon see trials, including with mobile phones.  
> 
> issues I have with host tunneling:
>  - how to communicate with native IPv6 nodes on the same network?
>  - how to communicate to another 6a44 host on a different link in the same home?
>  - do you need non-congruent topology multi-homing policy?
>    http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-troan-multihoming-without-nat66-01
>    how do you distribute that policy when you don't have a on-link router?
>  - a general unease that now every host is supposed to have a "VPN" connection?
>    how do I configure my own firewall and other network border policy?
> 
> how much would a new CPE cost the customer? 80USD? that's only 5 pints of beer (if bought in Norway.)
> I really liked the dongle idea by the way. perhaps with a L2TP LAC.
> 
> cheers,
> Ole