Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> Mon, 17 July 2017 08:42 UTC
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Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 10:42:01 +0200
From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: IPv6 Ops WG <v6ops@ietf.org>
CC: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Jim Martin <jim@daedelus.com>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DD87FD30-F4C0-4E9D-8AB5-50AE434D500B@consulintel.es>
Thread-Topic: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings
References: <7643C1DC-76A3-4652-9BB1-D0D42801F37E@consulintel.es> <CAEqgTWYOe=jWp=zVZNLx6DjKjNpPTYaq2jmjryudrGZHKZNq6g@mail.gmail.com> <A5D0385C-F755-4B44-86D8-6E618E77193F@consulintel.es> <CAPt1N1kroh2cPkTr8HRfNjLTdG0hkC1oQsUZdhQzQA5tA9-xug@mail.gmail.com> <9AF791E9-1E12-425E-93A4-2913E2D18CBA@consulintel.es> <CAPt1N1kU4cpVCsp7W3XNAZupYqjTWVH+BNp9bwtznnWD_uP2oQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAEqgTWZzZW0wKggDXjY=-aMfDxzd5-GoRqju1829XwY3aHQuYg@mail.gmail.com> <0FAF1E05-DA4B-47BF-95F7-7EFCD1BED9B0@cable.comcast.com> <42188852-BBEB-4D75-967F-4BED79BBBCAE@consulintel.es> <CAFU7BARahTfH_Uy_t22EthGuFMJ=q-N1zxismNAVkHWWJA-Obw@mail.gmail.com> <AAE9F8A5-EB0E-4305-A405-3C53D50995D2@apple.com>
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Subject: Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings
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Using CLAT means we can actually KNOW and report if we like, what will be broken by NAT64 without actually breaking it. Cellular networks is a much more controlled field, I guess all app developers, because Apple mandated (and I like it very much), support for IPv6 in any app, worked out the same for Android/Windows apps, so it make sense. Regards, Jordi -----Mensaje original----- De: <dschinazi@apple.com> en nombre de David Schinazi <dschinazi@apple.com> Responder a: <dschinazi@apple.com> Fecha: lunes, 17 de julio de 2017, 10:38 Para: Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com> CC: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>, IPv6 Ops WG <v6ops@ietf.org>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Jim Martin <jim@daedelus.com>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com> Asunto: Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings On Jul 17, 2017, at 10:34, Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com> wrote: On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 6:17 PM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote: In the real world, you will not disable IPv4 in the LANs of end-users or enterprise customers (at least not now, may be in 3-5 years from now). I disagree with this statement. There are networks doing this. Right here right now. A major US carrier is doing this today on iPhone without any CLAT. It works, and they don't even have a fallback. What we're proposing here is allowing networking experts to test the feasibility of IPv6 only. From my experience most issues are extremely minor and it often only takes small fixes to work. But you need to be aware of the issue ti go fix it. Using a CLAT here would not allow us to learn what works or not because going through NAT64 is not a failure. Thanks, David Schinazi -----Mensaje original----- De: v6ops <v6ops-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de "Brzozowski, John" <John_Brzozowski@comcast.com> Responder a: <John_Brzozowski@comcast.com> Fecha: lunes, 17 de julio de 2017, 10:14 Para: Noah <noah@neo.co.tz>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> CC: Jim Martin <jim@daedelus.com>, IPv6 Ops WG <v6ops@ietf.org>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com> Asunto: Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings Agree with Noah and Ted. Note the I-D explicitly documents that a fallback, dual stack SSID must remain available as Noah mentions below. I fail to see how doing this will harm or discriminate. We do need to eat our own dogfood, otherwise we are hypocrites. John +1-484-962-0060 From: v6ops <v6ops-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Noah <noah@neo.co.tz> Date: Monday, July 17, 2017 at 09:01 To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> Cc: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>, v6ops <v6ops@ietf.org>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Jim Martin <jim@daedelus.com>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings FWIW and to cater for all, would a fallback dual stack SSID work for the status quo while this 2nd v6 SSID is also experimented upon which is a great idea considering this is IETF. Noah On 17 Jul 2017 9:54 a.m., "Ted Lemon" <mellon@fugue.com> wrote: I don't think this is a social justice issue. Does the IETF think that IPv6 works, or not? If we think it works, and we have been working for what, 20 years, to make it work, and we have designed all this great transition tech, then why on earth would we not want to use it? This isn't "one draft." This is roughly half the work of the IETF for the past two decades. On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 8:51 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote: So we agree to change the rules so that we use this network for every ID that want to experiment with it? Otherwise we discriminate among different authors … I think is a really bad precedent. Regards, Jordi -----Mensaje original----- De: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> Responder a: <mellon@fugue.com> Fecha: lunes, 17 de julio de 2017, 8:48 Para: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> CC: IPv6 Ops WG <v6ops@ietf.org>, Jim Martin <jim@daedelus.com>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in> Asunto: Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings I don't actually know what the goal of the IETF network is other than to provide connectivity. Because of the vicissitudes of hotel topology, it is often the case that IETF participants experience issues with the network at least once or twice per IETF despite the best efforts (and they are quite exceptional) of the NOC team. I do not really see what the damage is that you are hoping to protect against here. Users who don't read the NOC announcement? No sympathy. Sorry. ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited. _______________________________________________ v6ops mailing list v6ops@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops _______________________________________________ v6ops mailing list v6ops@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops _______________________________________________ v6ops mailing list v6ops@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited. _______________________________________________ v6ops mailing list v6ops@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops -- SY, Jen Linkova aka Furry _______________________________________________ v6ops mailing list v6ops@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.
- [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi… Brzozowski, John
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… joel jaeggli
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Noah
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Noah
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Brzozowski, John
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Mark Elkins
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… David Schinazi
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Stephen Honlue
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… David Schinazi
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… David Schinazi
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… David Schinazi
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Noah
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Brzozowski, John
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Brzozowski, John
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Brzozowski, John
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Noah
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Dmitry Burkov
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Tim Chown
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… David Schinazi
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Erik Nygren
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Ca By
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Ca By
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Simon Hobson
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Simon Hobson
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Lee Howard
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Erik Kline
- [v6ops] NAT64/DNS64 support in RIPE Atlas Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] NAT64/DNS64 support in RIPE Atlas Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only W… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] NAT64/DNS64 support in RIPE Atlas Gert Doering