Re: [v6ops] [Iot-directorate] Iotdir last call review of draft-ietf-v6ops-nd-cache-init-05
Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Fri, 18 September 2020 19:20 UTC
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From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
cc: Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com>, "iot-directorate@ietf.org" <iot-directorate@ietf.org>, "v6ops@ietf.org" <v6ops@ietf.org>, "iesg@ietf.org" <iesg@ietf.org>, "last-call@ietf.org" <last-call@ietf.org>
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Comments: In-reply-to "Pascal Thubert \(pthubert\)" <pthubert=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> message dated "Wed, 16 Sep 2020 10:13:07 -0000."
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 15:19:51 -0400
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Subject: Re: [v6ops] [Iot-directorate] Iotdir last call review of draft-ietf-v6ops-nd-cache-init-05
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Pascal Thubert \(pthubert\) <pthubert=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > Note to your points below (where we lost sync): this must be > *completely transparent to the applications*. The idea in 1) would be > that something like a tentative state where the address was formed in > the stack but not available to the apps. There are a number of reasons > for the stack to send a probe like this: prepare the NCE in the router > as GRAND does, find a captive portal as my phone and PC do, assess the > reachability from a ULA, check the MTU on the last mile... If there is a captive portal, as indicated by RA and/or DHCP, then communicating with it will do exactly the desired NCE actions. My understanding is that iOS will start rotating MAC addresses *even on the same network* every 12hours. I have no idea what they will do with their L3 addresses. I imagine they get recycled... but it would be interesting if they were allowed to be kept for open sockets. There is an assumption is that WPA-X will need to be invoked at that point, and that will re-establish the identity of the phone to an upper layer, but layer-2 snoops will not be able to track beyond that point. (Maybe they won't bother on unenccrypted wifi, which is often used in airports/hotels where captive portals are?) At that point, the NCE will need to be updated again and any captive portal will either have to be connected to the WPA auth-server (to get the updated l2 address), or the phone will need to visit the captive portal again. > That OS magic is largely OS -specific, unspecified and > undocumented. Which means that we cannot validate its value and > effects, we cannot count on it, and, as opposed to WiND, we cannot > refer to it to explain what it is we dismiss as a possible > solution. Since there is no standard, GRAND is bound to explain what it > is dismissing so the reader can decide to buy the argument of not. I understand your point. It would be good to describe method (1) somewhere, if only because hosts will continue to have to do this until the other methods are widely supported. > Note that in the text above the stack does not need to get the > packet(s) back. All it cares is too get an NS from a router in a very > short time. Do you propose that the host is actually looking to receive that NS? -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | network architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [
- [v6ops] Iotdir last call review of draft-ietf-v6o… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [v6ops] Iotdir last call review of draft-ietf… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] Iotdir last call review of draft-ietf… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [v6ops] Iotdir last call review of draft-ietf… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] Iotdir last call review of draft-ietf… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [v6ops] [Last-Call] Iotdir last call review o… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Iotdir last call review of draft-ietf… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] [Last-Call] Iotdir last call review o… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [v6ops] [Last-Call] Iotdir last call review o… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] [Last-Call] Iotdir last call review o… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [v6ops] [Last-Call] Iotdir last call review o… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] [Last-Call] Iotdir last call review o… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [v6ops] [Last-Call] Iotdir last call review o… Michael Richardson
- Re: [v6ops] [Iot-directorate] Iotdir last call re… Michael Richardson
- Re: [v6ops] [Iot-directorate] Iotdir last call re… Michael Richardson
- Re: [v6ops] [Iot-directorate] [Last-Call] Iotdir … Michael Richardson
- Re: [v6ops] [Iot-directorate] Iotdir last call re… Michael Richardson
- Re: [v6ops] [Iot-directorate] Iotdir last call re… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)