Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Operational workarounds

Gert Doering <gert@space.net> Fri, 25 October 2019 13:28 UTC

Return-Path: <gert@space.net>
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F7B012086D for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 06:28:26 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.598
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 348LJFbXQoFH for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 06:28:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mobil.space.net (mobil.space.net [195.30.115.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA95A120128 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 06:28:24 -0700 (PDT)
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietf.org
Received: from mobil.space.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 193D242798 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 15:28:23 +0200 (CEST)
X-SpaceNet-Relay: true
X-SpaceNet-Relay: true
X-SpaceNet-Relay: true
Received: from moebius4.space.net (moebius4.space.net [IPv6:2001:608:2:2::251]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A35742286; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 15:28:23 +0200 (CEST)
Received: by moebius4.space.net (Postfix, from userid 1007) id 06871DDBF; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 15:28:23 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 15:28:22 +0200
From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>
Cc: Philip Homburg <pch-v6ops-9@u-1.phicoh.com>, v6ops@ietf.org
Message-ID: <20191025132822.GE72330@Space.Net>
References: <CAO42Z2wCYi4KWTEz1hUSPVr9+hu8GaHRkPuvQQ2P00knvnPaaQ@mail.gmail.com> <848BA3B3-36B4-4C42-86D0-88759BC45D5A@employees.org> <A61279DA-4678-4A10-9117-6CA227AE2FA5@cisco.com> <A90AD47E-00E2-4EAB-8BD8-142CC10A6B6F@employees.org> <m1iNv5U-0000KUC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <E273241D-9C35-4E07-9525-DF7FA786F419@employees.org> <m1iNywd-0000KmC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <49A6064C-3AA0-4AA6-B78E-ED8404D35B97@employees.org> <m1iNzQi-0000KmC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <C630FEB8-550D-47D1-BEEE-55134DDDEDD9@employees.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <C630FEB8-550D-47D1-BEEE-55134DDDEDD9@employees.org>
X-NCC-RegID: de.space
User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.2 (2019-09-21)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/2sgyAXSZJJGvZyyHlyqYcptxGkY>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Operational workarounds
X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: v6ops discussion list <v6ops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/v6ops/>
List-Post: <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 13:28:27 -0000

Hi,

On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 03:25:36PM +0200, Ole Troan wrote:
> My argument is that if you do that, as in add support for ephemeral addressing / flash renumbering at the network layer, without doing anything at upper layers, then for an end-user, IPv6 will provide no value or more likely negative value compared to IPv4 + NAT.

Nothing in the lower layers of the IP stack provides any "value" to the 
end-user.

Which is why they are not banging at our doors demanding "TCP!" or
"DNS!" or "IPv4".  Or, "IPv6", for that matter.

Applications need to work, and applications have learned how to survive
NAT breakage, so applications need to learn how to do deal with non-stable
IPv6 addresses.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?

SpaceNet AG                      Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14        Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann
D-80807 Muenchen                 HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen)
Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444         USt-IdNr.: DE813185279