Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefix Valid Lifetime is going to be X" (Re: SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Operational workarounds)
Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> Mon, 11 November 2019 21:06 UTC
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From: Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 08:05:56 +1100
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To: Richard Patterson <richard@helix.net.nz>
Cc: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, v6ops list <v6ops@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefix Valid Lifetime is going to be X" (Re: SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Operational workarounds)
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On Tue, 12 Nov 2019, 05:56 Richard Patterson, <richard@helix.net.nz> wrote: > On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 at 17:11, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote: > >> Nobody is expecting you to never renumber. Well, at least I am not. >> What I am talking about here is deliberate, opportunistic renumbering. If >> your topology changes and you have to renumber, so be it. If you can avoid >> that it’s better, and if you can give notice it’s also better. If you can >> do it gracefully with temporary routes, even better. But you shouldn’t be >> renumbering just ‘cuz. >> > > In that case I think we agree, an operator shouldn't intentionally > renumber "just 'cuz". However the scenarios I mentioned are far from the > Operator going *out of their way* to not support stable prefixes. > "What you allow, you encourage." - Michael Josephson. If the IETF believe that stable prefixes are the correct solution, because that is the Internet architecture (transport layer connections are to tolerate transient connectivity faults through retransmission, and that relies on persistent host IP addresses across transient connectivity faults), then I don't think the IETF should try to purposefully accommodate unstable prefixes. Purposefully accommodating unstable prefixes will only encourage ISPs to use them. If an ISP chooses to provide a bad experience to their customers through unstable prefixes, then the pain and consequences of that decision should be entirely borne by the ISP, rather than them then expecting the IETF, CPE and host implementation vendors to then come up with and wear the development and deployment costs of imperfect work arounds. These ISPs are choosing to create a problem that doesn't need to exist. The question is just around how stable they are, > The answer is easy. What the ISP said it would be in the Valid Lifetime field. It's a broken promise if it isn't, and ISPs should only break promises when they have no other choice i.e. emergency network reconfiguration in a dire fault situation. If an ISP wants to provide short life addresses, they can specify a ValidLifetime as low as 2 hours, per RFC 4862, 5.5.3, (e). That would seem to me to be contradictory to the "always on" nature of the Internet service they're selling, however that's up to them as long as they wear the consequences of that decision. and once you start having to ask that question, then shouldn't we be > looking at ways to mitigate the impact to an end-user? > > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops >
- [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Operatio… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Trevor Warwick
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Clark Gaylord
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Richard Patterson
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Kristian McColm
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Timothy Winters
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Timothy Winters
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Timothy Winters
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Radu-Adrian Feurdean
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefix Va… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Naveen Kottapalli
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Radu-Adrian Feurdean
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Sander Steffann
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… sthaug
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… sthaug
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Richard Patterson
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Richard Patterson
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Andrews
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? (Re:… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Tassos Chatzithomaoglou
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Tassos Chatzithomaoglou
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Tassos Chatzithomaoglou
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Richard Patterson
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Tassos Chatzithomaoglou
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Ole Troan