[v6ops] Re: Dynamic addresses

Daryll Swer <contact@daryllswer.com> Wed, 14 August 2024 10:03 UTC

Return-Path: <contact@daryllswer.com>
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEF46C14E515 for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:03:40 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.106
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.106 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=daryllswer.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L40zXfupITmZ for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:03:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pf1-x429.google.com (mail-pf1-x429.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::429]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5938C14EB17 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:03:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pf1-x429.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-710ce81bf7dso4255645b3a.0 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:03:36 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=daryllswer.com; s=google; t=1723629816; x=1724234616; darn=ietf.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=6qMjCM7HAFAidUStPsQ38freSJ804+yZ9NgU8vupXoI=; b=SB9SkHUteqyaIqUgcEeczaJPJQsN0U/JJeMCsPuYcr/Lk+YSG9/NlkNFV41euP1Q0S 21J4tiXzvTmXoGK/Szk4USdqLjOZluDn4Vdymo2CPtSRa8lKHbz/o+boliuY0435eZNj s5nxYWaeFd9AOXXTHSYtND7UbTA/MDpDzXpd8uHL9Y8UoBW+6Gfr+9p/Egn8Y/s8DFW/ 4d6nQzMJwY580J6sxSYIoEFZk34Sn3Jd8Q+2kCGV3u7u55GR/aIovG4moZ28psXb2Bb/ hv0RhwMHt6Q/4KScGHJrwGMvB19R/KC1H4GqRTQDvT+EVXzMoJXJygCKKNMLHO3NcM19 JZ/Q==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1723629816; x=1724234616; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=6qMjCM7HAFAidUStPsQ38freSJ804+yZ9NgU8vupXoI=; b=TyYmG3lerkcRqM9qc0yyszbfdRnB0yzFGR3ecbQ81R2zr6DuF5hw1GsW9o2hL6dnTr jig9xvnYN05/ftzC0JB2A8PYhgg5zU4cha0JjyhBNQhyHjYVy3gRxAq6CHzQsH5AapEs 9B1t0NUb2s20UlWyshQtolytxUPtHKoO9aJoSm61+zVlkEc7FoytVjWQG+KQkV50HyHW MVRbPmmWOO4TWyW5RiDWzOLnOv8bDFZxHrbxtFVICSTjvk7XlDNF4uqCQGYzvSSzslSf czBBb7BJFp19ZnQXtDv85NqV+PAchg8riWr9uF4xXD0TOXaOKq2uMWvBDrI3iAjOSVJu jgzQ==
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCV/PHvKJ6DPqvTg9ER7k+SH5BQ70kHkPV4DYkvsktzqJosS3PZrU+XEpUzF+mPvjI36iUod6Fh4IYZwx0pMtA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy+dWwg1fzIVcwV19OCaIXlg9Ku98Q90Hb7Aeu2QEZk1f0xRT0f mjEhkdaF8Lxv3KJfShsWC6L1r54GZB/I7ZyqRJ1du4v0jjJEETLn2G8ZCCb6OqYl8E3QoJ/FMvy UY+E=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGjZCAco+BEqd/yooJlrzvvHtyYsTBJ2vmAVRpVzd4/52f1YcNt9ePPKw5+Qr0mcz9lPfmhWw==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a21:31c7:b0:1c4:d5f6:867e with SMTP id adf61e73a8af0-1c8eaf47cf6mr2886708637.34.1723629815831; Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:03:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pf1-f171.google.com (mail-pf1-f171.google.com. [209.85.210.171]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d2e1a72fcca58-710e5a43588sm7005307b3a.129.2024.08.14.03.03.35 for <v6ops@ietf.org> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:03:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pf1-f171.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-710d0995e21so4242585b3a.1 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:03:35 -0700 (PDT)
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWEMiDZ+v8G2udG6s36I/A/MlV3cwwu0A4jpZ5ix2lnJm+G23qxdVqGbW2lepipusp1QOb1ZPsWIUoeCKhY0A==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a21:3103:b0:1c3:ba3d:3ec3 with SMTP id adf61e73a8af0-1c8eaf489c7mr2654744637.36.1723629814939; Wed, 14 Aug 2024 03:03:34 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <20240812142831.22a4f28e@zbook> <DB9PR07MB7771D93917C01A028E30FDEED6852@DB9PR07MB7771.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <0d0f35a3-1493-4e4e-8b4a-08f41fac2b2c@gmail.com> <CACyFTPFPRrW5MxZ8yoNPKYWxzaGQO-HnMNpEKR3TCbVpK6hgWg@mail.gmail.com> <20240813065439.061ef59a@zbook> <CACyFTPH+dA9xkCUT98zHr7AYpGyYFuOgOaynhsPjz3iKEuseog@mail.gmail.com> <20240813171637.48ce7cfe@zbook> <CACyFTPGgJsjLtoTegqy34BCSVH+vp_oxbKvBj3vnLaXpiD-vGA@mail.gmail.com> <Zrx7N9IWGeDqIuPf@Space.Net> <CACyFTPHNiyVJOu695sP+o6PBBeWmggRag-hvzZ6A1XH4LMgfLw@mail.gmail.com> <Zrx-94I4Q67J8r2k@Space.Net>
In-Reply-To: <Zrx-94I4Q67J8r2k@Space.Net>
From: Daryll Swer <contact@daryllswer.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2024 15:32:59 +0530
X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: <CACyFTPFHQjsw87MXQga17AfeNzR5S01W35RU99Nj7AUFNeMiQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACyFTPFHQjsw87MXQga17AfeNzR5S01W35RU99Nj7AUFNeMiQA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d81290061fa1d67f"
Message-ID-Hash: PI34GO7U4L6GBXYQU2SS4TTWTXY3ZWO5
X-Message-ID-Hash: PI34GO7U4L6GBXYQU2SS4TTWTXY3ZWO5
X-MailFrom: contact@daryllswer.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-v6ops.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: "v6ops@ietf.org" <v6ops@ietf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc4
Precedence: list
Subject: [v6ops] Re: Dynamic addresses
List-Id: v6ops discussion list <v6ops.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/5gokAkTA2dVnXpN2mnnkCLTFdQI>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/v6ops>
List-Help: <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:v6ops-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:v6ops-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:v6ops-leave@ietf.org>

>
> "Everyday applications" are, basically, "short-lived https
> connections" and possibly soonish "QUIC".  Which both do not really care if
> the local source address changes (unless a genius decided to include source
> address into a session cookie - which is *exactly* the point of not doing
> this).
>

Not everything is HTTP(s) traffic. Try doing a packet capture when on *any*
popular multiplayer game, VoIP applications (Apple FaceTime, Telegram,
WhatsApp etc) etc, SIP etc.

Let's not forget VPN server endpoint (IPSec, WireGuard, OpenVPN etc). Good
luck hosting one with your dynamic prefixes at home.

And why, in the world, would we encourage locking the internet ecosystem to
just HTTP(s) TCP/UDP port 443? This is as terrible as “BGP over QUIC/H3”,
“Ethernet over HTTP” etc. Peer-to-peer applications should be encouraged,
instead of server/client-only model (aka IPv4-centric mentality) for
everything, leading to even more centralisation of internet traffic/content
and comms. among a handful of large cloud providers and CDNs.

My opinion is final, dynamic prefixes should not be enforced, but sure,
given as an option if the end-user wants it so bad.

*--*
Best Regards
Daryll Swer
Website: daryllswer.com
<https://mailtrack.io/l/5d2a93dc730cca187ea400b60ce88b8d268067aa?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.daryllswer.com&u=2153471&signature=ccfaad24aa5a1457>


On Wed, 14 Aug 2024 at 15:25, Gert Doering <gert@space.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 03:21:12PM +0530, Daryll Swer wrote:
> > Do we really need to create a list of everyday applications (beyond the
> so
> > called 0.001% SSH users) that'd be impacted by dynamic/ever-changing 24/7
> > prefixes? I'm sure you got the point.
>
> "Everyday applications" are, basically, "short-lived https connections"
> and possibly soonish "QUIC".  Which both do not really care if the local
> source address changes (unless a genius decided to include source address
> into a session cookie - which is *exactly* the point of not doing this).
>
> Everything else does not exist in a measurable scale.
>
> Gert Doering
>         -- NetMaster
> --
> have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
>
> SpaceNet AG                      Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Ingo
> Lalla,
>                                            Karin Schuler, Sebastian Cler
> Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14        Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann
> D-80807 Muenchen                 HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen)
> Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444         USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
>