Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-6man-grand : saving lookups

"Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com> Wed, 12 August 2020 14:32 UTC

Return-Path: <pthubert@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AB473A1362; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 07:32:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -9.597
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=gHQ+aDM6; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=ibHuWpZp
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oAh8ixpB7uNA; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 07:32:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from alln-iport-8.cisco.com (alln-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.142.95]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52A073A1393; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 07:32:06 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7161; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1597242726; x=1598452326; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=cVN1HaT0AgNy37xrMHgXy6rW+7ZONamCLYxOAe6amTU=; b=gHQ+aDM6Wv2ehNu+xBLQ+m2OKHV5iKjm7SQyIsMVkUrAPtBvizn4caZs aI2vBXUlAvJx3F1p4Ohmuw/jDs6bIZIEB5nI7WLSFW7c4EPMTvcl8CNI8 9zFlxMJ9sdDiQABdk0HOYKurg89aEOO1EKo8hNa0keALPzvdTJI3mKfGA 8=;
IronPort-PHdr: 9a23:x+TNYxDy3hHysK/uWF3GUyQJPHJ1sqjoPgMT9pssgq5PdaLm5Zn5IUjD/qw00A3GWIza77RPjO+F+6zjWGlV55GHvThCdZFXTBYKhI0QmBBoG8+KD0D3bZuIJyw3FchPThlpqne8N0UGF8P3ZlmUqXq3vnYeHxzlPl9zIeL4UofZk8Ww0bW0/JveKwVFjTawe/V8NhKz+A7QrcIRx4BlL/U8
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0DoAAC2/DNf/5NdJa1fHAEBAQEBAQcBARIBAQQEAQGBeAUBAQsBgVFRB29YLyyENoNGA40vJYoHiXKEbYEugSUDVQsBAQEMAQEYAQoKAgQBAYRMAheCHwIkNgcOAgMBAQsBAQUBAQECAQYEbYUvCCUMhXEBAQEDAQEBEBEdAQEsCwEECwIBCAQUJwMCAgIfBgsUEQIEDgUZCYMEAYF+TQMOIAEOqCUCgTmIYXaBMoMBAQEFgTMBg2cNC4IOAwaBOAGCcINfgQGFPxqBQT+BEScMEIJNPoIaQgEBAoEag1ozgi2PaoJYPYZhm3tRCoJilRyEfQMeoBWMcZJfkhMCBAIEBQIOAQEFgVoBMoFXcBU7KgGCPlAXAg2CBYwag3GFFIVCdAI1AgYBBwEBAwl8j3UBAQ
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.76,304,1592870400"; d="scan'208,217";a="541446927"
Received: from rcdn-core-11.cisco.com ([173.37.93.147]) by alln-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 12 Aug 2020 14:32:05 +0000
Received: from XCH-RCD-002.cisco.com (xch-rcd-002.cisco.com [173.37.102.12]) by rcdn-core-11.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 07CEW5t2011316 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:32:05 GMT
Received: from xhs-aln-002.cisco.com (173.37.135.119) by XCH-RCD-002.cisco.com (173.37.102.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 09:32:04 -0500
Received: from xhs-aln-003.cisco.com (173.37.135.120) by xhs-aln-002.cisco.com (173.37.135.119) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 09:32:04 -0500
Received: from NAM10-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (173.37.151.57) by xhs-aln-003.cisco.com (173.37.135.120) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 09:32:04 -0500
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=PDMO1yQKANP9JU5UCDGnyWnflnSvrbq4+9KkBolrjhxqO7kBJDTOSspBGF9Q2i+1BjCDYZKxI99JWzS4WBAN59iXeAV+Z1T0yVMYfsU1GUzy2fwgCJ0gYlpSi7mkIH9cfZPysnFJTKeApUEoBb4+eRCkWh3RVkXvUeAAcxHYNA48p+6T6eVby0tkKwz7YRCnKltu3sAv2XaP54cFz03PgTR9xnSTkrYV29D9jmdvqSMxY6luKFvlPlzNPjSFfrAYko20QV1DJIP0xpQN+LcTwCZ4SdWtP06fKl1SKIXK/8t3/glz4wF4GzLbJSCojODTaKH1IBYUY0TP5dLUvO+ivw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=cVN1HaT0AgNy37xrMHgXy6rW+7ZONamCLYxOAe6amTU=; b=G5HN2GkNw7g5WSVIJ8xq3VvuuUT2jJIyvptSvlf7cBuGQSPyksHqKdbDJiWtRBzQOjASFzbvZlXAiu528faFjxjGTk/oV8JFxHlhvxM4yQ2sz8bpb9GeC734Wahn+/1QtNzC7bRGDpqfmvW9b42/yEleHibrKmSCyh/ts7TUrDyNM2XussbtvaF4Qu1SjylyBGBc2+PK1nUYsWNPvjGlUVr/ewhy3ur2zSlz8PPouasFZNnsdNNtygegVqGqTtemm21Ot67iZ6xXRTNkWACBtoNPt/GYHPyWRP590lcqJArWz4PvK7/FbWyFkGulApuEoR2FzndoMJYO6pvnWkzHJQ==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cisco.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cisco.com; dkim=pass header.d=cisco.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-cisco-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=cVN1HaT0AgNy37xrMHgXy6rW+7ZONamCLYxOAe6amTU=; b=ibHuWpZpb2xK0PPo2LetQ2fepnRO2AFoL60DzQWckSObmvwJRAW3HNInfDTDv6A6O9gMVtOQ+EVw5MS3/V4nT1/SdcHRibhA39r5TD/uz46aem6K8x0QFZfcVLmSNtvSiKWqgzNT3JzQizlRsNYLiHEkIZjiCJWDtwOagZuk0Ws=
Received: from MN2PR11MB3565.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:ea::31) by MN2PR11MB3805.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:f4::12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3283.15; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:32:03 +0000
Received: from MN2PR11MB3565.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a53e:5801:92cc:3204]) by MN2PR11MB3565.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a53e:5801:92cc:3204%5]) with mapi id 15.20.3261.024; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:32:03 +0000
From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
CC: Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com>, V6 Ops List <v6ops@ietf.org>, 6man <ipv6@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [v6ops] draft-ietf-6man-grand : saving lookups
Thread-Index: AQHWZ1aaeJpnUJSV20aes48tEhFRoKkr72qAgABfnoCAAcz6gIAABkFSgAFuC4CAAxPuQYABRZUAgACr+ACAAAY6ZA==
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:32:03 +0000
Message-ID: <482DCDF9-852A-4506-BE74-1AC566C496C1@cisco.com>
References: <96fa6d80137241dd9b57fcd871c8a897@huawei.com> <CAFU7BARePzdeU5DFgoOWyrF0xZCj67_xkC2t8vMN2nH0d8aUig@mail.gmail.com> <37e2a7110f6b423eba0303811913f533@huawei.com> <CAKD1Yr1BJTAfp4PE+DY1yxeMm64kHetqBGYc5iaqZd3u0XrWpA@mail.gmail.com> <E176B084-24E1-434D-B15C-F364F64807BB@cisco.com> <CAFU7BASpHVTQ5SuNsdNu70ejZDnpVuPUaig+0_C=6q+mDQDFXA@mail.gmail.com> <BYAPR11MB355844AED3BA019B671797DDD8490@BYAPR11MB3558.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <CAFU7BATuCN1rE=H9v0vv84UKKE7zD+LtRqh48Zf7hHN+sSGQJw@mail.gmail.com> <8B923F28-899B-4CE5-A3EB-B82E9E74A9B8@cisco.com> <CAFU7BATNnY3tYTc+woqypiu7VDtTghSsOnihGHw9bS0923Z+Vw@mail.gmail.com> <m1k5Pdd-0000KfC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <CAFU7BAQHUmuNAB97iZrn2oK=ZiZBpv_xPpt+ESf6j90tOKeZcQ@mail.gmail.com>, <CAKD1Yr15zxUkxUfsKWewJgv=pvvQFuQWg4ib4L0ceDUy-nTEoA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAKD1Yr15zxUkxUfsKWewJgv=pvvQFuQWg4ib4L0ceDUy-nTEoA@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US
Content-Language: fr-FR
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com;
x-originating-ip: [2a01:cb15:25e:cc00:5cf3:5bf6:45aa:4400]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d5303efb-8a88-441b-07bb-08d83ecc7b30
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR11MB3805:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <MN2PR11MB3805ABA53830F9DF822DFD1ED8420@MN2PR11MB3805.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: Vp7f1x+GpSUBIIPpO868N0gLoyEZjwA5vD75s5PkbkITlRj5Zmdc61IVP4YyxiMNY7YoMIT9saNyvbE84YGNGNsedQ25lbdCHN6aQIg1W3XJ+lYmi1vFGMif0wosrDqmSljCOu9xBVsmOQvg6/QNQpgI/5okfRcXX6uTnTD78ug6gYaygW5+XCe9WV+HLcDsQ2wjcsFjNG7yVtBr2d4ccctu65bfuOd/2otmbLQo33xtBJ0ypb2NYT9/pLwj3DUuXv2uFdZsq7Yps71pnCTBfSoGeZZ9cqyJtFWErfi30eFbWchq833iAcD63tAd3wyjRCyqtutcwMBoVxV+kJkLjItn/WHzctFM7j2UA9mIrCmv1e2ejYBVrhfEVSJlXgSX7Bbt191LXD40e3SBmcqEUnCsf55+d+cvdscA5eAtk0ucayapB5imKSCdAjoe6U8Gu7E9OXXcv1yxKXkCR/rGMg==
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR11MB3565.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(396003)(39860400002)(366004)(136003)(346002)(376002)(8936002)(8676002)(2616005)(6506007)(6512007)(71200400001)(54906003)(36756003)(316002)(53546011)(33656002)(186003)(966005)(478600001)(64756008)(91956017)(76116006)(66556008)(6486002)(5660300002)(86362001)(66574015)(83380400001)(4326008)(66476007)(2906002)(66946007)(66446008)(244885003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_482DCDF9852A4506BE741AC566C496C1ciscocom_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR11MB3565.namprd11.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d5303efb-8a88-441b-07bb-08d83ecc7b30
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 12 Aug 2020 14:32:03.1832 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: CIdoi0BZpzqC14CupnPgGk0J0NqC6Req4L+8bq1YxaGF6rRENNsRvQk30BqKBnnXHbWsT2HKy4cAs510ALT3ew==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB3805
X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com
X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.12, xch-rcd-002.cisco.com
X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-11.cisco.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/8wWWuuprit7BM2db2wgzLECOqcE>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-6man-grand : saving lookups
X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: v6ops discussion list <v6ops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/v6ops/>
List-Post: <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:32:15 -0000

Sleeping devices should have a helper that covers for them; the more troubling case is that if a silent device, like this printer in the corner.

Not sleeping just sitting there and very sure that it will get packets for a very long time. As opposed to a phone that would fully benefit from grand, that guy will not benefit at all after day one? Unless it renews the binding.

To Jen’s point, the host does not need to guess the lifetime in the BCE. When something is needed we must add a protocol element to pass it, that’s what protocols do.

Now I’d argue that all addresses should not get the same service from the router, and only the host k owe if the address should be short or long lived. This is why the lifetime in of the binding in the router should be requested by the host and granted by the router. This is nothing new, mobile IP works exactly like that.


Regards,

Pascal

Le 12 août 2020 à 16:10, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> a écrit :


On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 12:55 PM Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com<mailto:furry13@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 2) I think MAY is too weak to rely on. One possibility to deal with 1)
>    and 2) is to have an RA option that specifies the interval. Then we
>    can make sending the NAs if the option is present a SHOULD or MUST

I'm not convinced we shall be doing it in the first place ;) And MUST
or even SHOULD look like a very strong requirement on all hosts just
to cover the very special case of sleeping devices.

+1 to not doing this, because some of those "sleeping devices" might also be routers (e.g., a phone that is sharing the wifi connection). Per spec, any packet to ff02::2 will reach and potentially wake up those devices. If these packets become common, the devices will be forced to choose between a) bad battery life and b) violating the spec (or at least nullifying its utility) by dropping the packets.
_______________________________________________
v6ops mailing list
v6ops@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops