Re: [v6ops] Scope of Unique Local IPv6 Unicast Addresses (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-gont-6man-ipv6-ula-scope-00.txt)

David Farmer <farmer@umn.edu> Sun, 14 February 2021 21:54 UTC

Return-Path: <farmer@umn.edu>
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 915D13A0942 for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 13:54:40 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.198
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=umn.edu
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SERl38x-kfIS for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 13:54:37 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mta-p8.oit.umn.edu (mta-p8.oit.umn.edu [134.84.196.208]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFF8C3A0B01 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 13:54:37 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mta-p8.oit.umn.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Df1H11bM5z9vC92 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 21:54:37 +0000 (UTC)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at umn.edu
Received: from mta-p8.oit.umn.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mta-p8.oit.umn.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FgyT_wrM1ZZC for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 15:54:37 -0600 (CST)
Received: from mail-ej1-f72.google.com (mail-ej1-f72.google.com [209.85.218.72]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mta-p8.oit.umn.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Df1H0645Hz9vC8r for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 15:54:36 -0600 (CST)
DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mta-p8.oit.umn.edu 4Df1H0645Hz9vC8r
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 mta-p8.oit.umn.edu 4Df1H0645Hz9vC8r
Received: by mail-ej1-f72.google.com with SMTP id gx1so3400145ejc.21 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 13:54:36 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=umn.edu; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=DBRZUvXdaByPkm7Xh9Oxfx7GVJZv80hANS5CvQkB0ss=; b=bWqiBgaHUNrhEQxJnLEC/Xwvsw7o2DpzKGr5huJmmZnZsTWw/HQaS0RSGw3X17LVwY nlbfVbA4penM08xhHuHNV5cqZXzT2dMGnLB3+wyjk/D6UDpTU524s3eFyVR2Na2rf4ej cNkqRSa+Z9+15AVjWtK45CXK6F7H9E99PyPhLegDUbiLv41NZeTutmEC8yqulNkZwG+g GTRCsOxZbR94UU6dKm6FQoSyUYt09KFRSBPVTcr6kHVHN/J+a8HsF1j3mqrzeBYPH7kg o0mOlYykBM7DnVhDpnlTwuOQemO/XeGniGAqAjK97knVdtTSel9MkQEAKNOcRiTOW0GY HSWg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DBRZUvXdaByPkm7Xh9Oxfx7GVJZv80hANS5CvQkB0ss=; b=s95NvbXrc2dYce2D6cJSKmU/b8/lxX+9T4dNvo4f59vthzSGiLcIMQw9qkEIJ/OrFV 8ZynrbBUh6nvLySuglA9uwTtOqbxtrbt2bQXo+tPQBMxw09XQF7mJBNhStC3TrNK1fSj qr6lnxtOJVZkXEWEewIFD58Q9IrZPz83PiZYAz/yFbwsDTQQCtA/wgW6XHxyed3fNX0b 28W4hxPt7JHCysFabXbcLBo38boIqBHh6kalnPPs2htn/Ngt7q7OIHMHKa0kccy+YfpB QQl/l2zQnjAlK+LH5+gVBwKQQK8BgTm/o8ncTUfSEJpiMEiBRjAxdYKNwMBAB3+tIzdB vxNg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5322OFzfYDVUqSIV0yvPwUH33Xhvna/YtAalbGrKBRzLGlx20Kho kLB9ejiDXHxKJ7Xm06Lo+T7CweN+ocX86aGtmyH/Cp8dOxXEe7USaNLfMaFRlVLgnGPdV13e3AU EYOFN6v/ug+Iw+N8QNNUd+msGNw==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:a246:: with SMTP id bi6mr13054141ejb.267.1613339674691; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 13:54:34 -0800 (PST)
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw7ni09BlmuZI+GpRrunYyppOs+Sm4su5zZZ4VUpEmwQw6xNP1ZRpbIa1rRlmEnM2Jx2vFdEhxLl8fbyatBBjs=
X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:a246:: with SMTP id bi6mr13054122ejb.267.1613339674245; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 13:54:34 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <160989494094.6024.7402128068704112703@ietfa.amsl.com> <6fe3a45e-de65-9f88-808d-ea7e2abdcd16@si6networks.com> <F4E00812-E366-4520-AE17-7BB46E28D575@gmail.com> <CAN-Dau3iOjjU+FLpdtA7nqfKRX+sjjSanAU8U-O3pH-k5nSoig@mail.gmail.com> <a3fbfb94-90ae-961c-a2ab-33ade27e074e@si6networks.com> <672bd5e6-bdce-5915-1082-1ed30d3c5980@gmail.com> <CAN-Dau1CvbwZccq2Zyr8xBkiW1z0nKX_YcGW-y3VL7=pm+wA+w@mail.gmail.com> <227CDF8C-E929-4AA5-9D24-733381EB5C69@fugue.com> <CAN-Dau0JsMJ6Ad1pqeEKSKpRiSXDibMG4yKdVOKL4uFoqi5sAQ@mail.gmail.com> <EED3FE0C-1CE6-4472-895A-7BA6C6A998F3@fugue.com>
In-Reply-To: <EED3FE0C-1CE6-4472-895A-7BA6C6A998F3@fugue.com>
From: David Farmer <farmer@umn.edu>
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 15:54:18 -0600
Message-ID: <CAN-Dau3vOgUnORpnDBjPj=A18EHDs8B_vwZarSs=FjV2A_K1Lg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Cc: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>, IPv6 Operations <v6ops@ietf.org>, "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002f966905bb52ea76"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/DSTbCH7-MUN5Mnw1no4AUUyCNYI>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] Scope of Unique Local IPv6 Unicast Addresses (Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-gont-6man-ipv6-ula-scope-00.txt)
X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: v6ops discussion list <v6ops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/v6ops/>
List-Post: <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 21:54:41 -0000

On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 3:32 PM Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote:

> On Feb 14, 2021, at 4:00 PM, David Farmer <farmer@umn.edu> wrote:
>
> So I recommend a small update to RFC4007, further quantify the necessary
> uniqueness;
>
> Global scope, for uniquely identifying interfaces anywhere in the Internet
> *or within the span of reachability for local-use addresses.*
>
>
> I think this whole discussion may have something to do with why site-local
> was deprecated, although I’m just guessing because I didn’t participate in
> that discussion.
>
> My question to you is this: how does your proposed update help anybody to
> understand?
>
> If we were to update the text, I would suggest something like this:
>
> Global scope, for uniquely identifying interfaces anywhere on the
> Internet. Note that when we say an address is “globally unique,” this is a
> definitional assertion: such an address is to be treated as globally unique
> by hosts and routers. Mechanisms for ensuring that this definitional
> assertion is not violated exist for each type of globally scoped address,
> and in some cases rather than ensuring that a globally /scoped/ address is
> in fact unique, these mechanisms ensure that the use of such addresses is
> constrained to contexts in which they are /known/ to be unique.
>
>
So when I read "uniquely identifying interfaces anywhere on the Internet",
that suggests to me the entirety of the Internet, basically anywhere and
everywhere, whether or not I can actually successfully get packets there or
not.  I think that statement needs to be qualified or limited by
reachability in some way. It doesn't need to specifically mention
local-use, but I think it clarifies the issue.  The fact that someone else
on the other side of the planet or even across the street is using the same
ULA prefixes as me doesn't really matter because I can't get packets there,
but that isn't that what that statement says.

Thanks
-- 
===============================================
David Farmer               Email:farmer@umn.edu
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota
2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
===============================================