Re: [v6ops] Flow Label Load Balancing

[Tom Herbert <[e-mail]>]

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 12:46 PM Brian E Carpenter
<[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> On 25-Nov-20 08:28, Alexander Azimov wrote:
> > Hi Fernando,
> >
> > Stating that FL change during TCP session lifetime is a bug - is a bit harsh.
>
> It's a bug. It definitely breaks server load balancing, which in practice is more important than en route load balancing, because it will probably switch your session to a different server. (OK, I know that there are mechanisms sometimes for rescuing a session that has unexpectedly moved from one server to another, but in general it's a fail.)
>
Brian,

IMO it's not that this breaks server load balancing, it's really that
server load balancing and other stateful mechanisms break multipath,
multihoming, and adaptive routing! In any case, I would agree that in
the current Internet it is pragmatic in the current Internet to aim
for consistent routing as the default.

Tom

> I assume you have read https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7098
>
> Regards
>     Brian
>
> >
> > It is a fantastic idea to change the FL value if RTO or SYN_RTO happens in a controlled environment.
> > These are very specific TCP timeouts, that provide enough guarantee that there will be no out-of-order packets, though your packets will reach the destination even in case of an outage inside your network. Zero influence on your services in case of the network outage - doesn't sound like a bug for me.
> >
> > The problem is with the current Linux (though I haven't checked other OSes) defaults. Specifically, with the default behavior after RTO event.
> >
> > вт, 24 нояб. 2020 г. в 22:06, Fernando Gont <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>:
> >
> >     On 19/11/20 07:48, Alexander Azimov wrote:
> >     > Dear colleagues,
> >     >
> >     > I have added in the cc both v6op and tcpm for a reason and let me
> >     > explain why.
> >     >
> >     > It's clear that we are moving forward with load balancing that uses flow
> >     > label (FL). And the pressure will increase with SRv6 adoption. But at
> >     > the moment wide adoption of FL-based load-balancing may create
> >     > significant issues for TCP Anycast services.
> >     >
> >     > RFC6437 suggests putting hash from 5-tuple into FL value. And as far as
> >     > I know, there is no document that updates this behavior. This
> >     > description is perfectly fine, but what is implemented in the Linux
> >     > kernel is different: FL is carrying hash from 5-tuple with an additional
> >     > seed, and this seed is randomly changed after each RTO/SYN_RTO event.
> >
> >     Changing the FL upon RTO is a bug.
> >
> >     I guess/assume that when you say SYN-RTO, you really mean "user
> >     timeout", rather than RTO. If you don't, then that's also a bug.
> >     If you do, I fail to understand what's the reason for wanting the FL to
> >     change in that case, because as a result of port randomization, it 0s
> >     unlikely that the same four-tuple is employed for the next connection retry.
> >
> >
> >     > Here are related patches:
> >     >
> >     >   * https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/[e-mail]/
> >     >   * https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/[e-mail]/
> >     >   * https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/[e-mail]/
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > This is a great thing by the way because in the data center
> >     > environment with multiple equal paths it gives a way to have
> >     > pseudo-multipath TCP which jumps between paths in case of an outage.
> >     > There might be interest to writedown an informational document for this.
> >
> >     That's a bad idea, since specs-wise the Flow-Label is not guaranteed to
> >     remain unchanged from source to destination. If you want to ahve
> >     multiple paths, then you should implement that in routing.
> >
> >
> >
> >     > I wonder what you think is a proper solution:
> >     >
> >     >   * Making FL related RTO change as knob instead of default behavior;
> >     >   * Adding negotiation behavior in TCP;
> >     >   * Something else?
> >
> >     Just make the FL a function of the connection "identifier". And keeo it
> >     constant for the lifetime of that conenction.
> >
> >     Thanks,
> >     --
> >     Fernando Gont
> >     e-mail: [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]> || [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
> >     PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Alexander Azimov
> >
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>
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