[v6ops] Re: 464XLAT-only networks

[Daryll Swer <[e-mail]>]

>
> Okay. You can learn IPv6, yes.
>
> ... And apply it where? Unlike IPv6, 464XLAT-only can be easily applied on
> existing IPv4 networks.


Have you attended any RIR and/or NOG workshops and training programmes
before? Especially the ones that cater to students/freshers/beginners, you
must have seen how the programmes are structured, right?

Learning = done in the lab, hardware lab if finance and logistics permit
(often not), virtual GNS3/EVE-NG/Cloud-based/Containerlabs (I myself I am
trying to move to containerlabs, if I can figure out how they do Docker
IPv6 with the latest Docker codebase changes
<https://mailtrack.io/l/5cdde7f9265d3f5098bd39b8e55b7d94cd25edac?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fdocker%2Fdocs%2Fissues%2F19556%23issuecomment-2263495305&u=2153471&signature=fd3b7be022095023>)
majority of the time.

The students/freshers/beginners (this includes business and telecom
executives, particularly those who wants to know precisely what's happening
in their networking business beyond PowerPoint slide engineering) then
*apply* what they've learnt, in their jobs, internships, consulting
projects, volunteering projects (small IXP, ISP, WISP) etc.

I myself, learnt 99% of the networking stuff via these labs.

What you learn in school/college (hopefully, an industrial-based
curriculum) is similarly the same way, you learn in the lab/classroom and
apply it in your job/career/projects etc.

*--*
Best Regards
Daryll Swer
Website: daryllswer.com
<https://mailtrack.io/l/c3004fe6ece2883b445036f8fefed31fde8c7bc9?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.daryllswer.com&u=2153471&signature=622a88e8b0575180>


On Fri, 25 Oct 2024 at 19:49, Soni L. <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Okay. You can learn IPv6, yes.
>
> ... And apply it where? Unlike IPv6, 464XLAT-only can be easily applied on
> existing IPv4 networks.
>
> On Fri, Oct 25, 2024, 11:00 Daryll Swer <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>> David's analogy is a good one.
>>
>> Soni, all of this can take place inside GNS3, EVE-NG, containerlabs etc.
>>
>> That's how we learn networking in general in the absence of a dedicated
>> hardware lab (with or without IPv6).
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 25 Oct 2024 at 6:17 PM, David Farmer <farmer=
>> [e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>>> Let me use the metaphor of flight training. You can learn to fly a plane
>>> in a simulator, but if the controls of the simulator are backwards. You are
>>> going to have a very hard time flying a real plane.
>>>
>>> If your goals for this are an environment to lean IPv6 in, which is what
>>> you seem to be saying. Then the IPv6 environment you are creating is so
>>> different from the normal IPv6 environment, I'm not sure it will be
>>> helpful, and it could very well be detrimental to the learners.
>>>
>>> I'm trying to keep an open mind, but I'm not seeing something very
>>> useful here, at least yet.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 15:13 Soni L. <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> for the record, the end result of a 464XLAT-only network is that it
>>>> ends up becoming a 464XLAT-enabled IPv6 network (eventually). there are no
>>>> security considerations beyond those that already apply to 464XLAT-enabled
>>>> IPv6 networks, it just happens to not have access to the IPv6 internet.
>>>>
>>>> 464XLAT-enabled IPv6 seems to be the recommended deployment strategy
>>>> for IPv6 these days, so despite the bastardization... it still works out in
>>>> the end.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 24, 2024, 16:43 Brian E Carpenter <
>>>> [e-mail]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In a few seconds I'll be putting this thread in a filter so that it
>>>>> will never trouble me again, but for now I'll just say that we originally
>>>>> invented 6to4 for such scenarios, and while it did help a bit when IPv6
>>>>> support was rare, it later became an operational nightmare and a security
>>>>> hole. It took years to exterminate. We should not repeat this.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, 6to4 within a university network that doesn't otherwise
>>>>> support IPv6 probably still works. I saw a case of that during 2023, caused
>>>>> by rogue behaviour in Windows Server 2008 and similar antiquities.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>     Brian Carpenter
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25-Oct-24 01:45, Soni L. wrote:
>>>>> > maybe you're a student and your university is ipv4-only but you want
>>>>> to work with/make a practical ipv6 network as part of some project. this is
>>>>> the use-case for the "rogue" network (which would have to be approved by
>>>>> the university anyway). this would be the intended use-case for this cursed
>>>>> bastardization of ipv6...
>>>>> >
>>>>> > a lot of folks interested in ipv6 told us their university doesn't
>>>>> have ipv6. this might let them play with it in an university setting. ofc,
>>>>> gotta be careful about pissing off IT... (pissing off IT is probably
>>>>> ill-advised.)
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Thu, Oct 24, 2024, 09:16 Gert Doering <[e-mail] <mailto:
>>>>> [e-mail]>> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >     Hi,
>>>>> >
>>>>> >     On Thu, Oct 24, 2024 at 09:15:04AM -0300, Soni L. wrote:
>>>>> >      > some providers still don't do ipv6, maybe you still want to
>>>>> migrate your
>>>>> >      > internal network to ipv6 to get it ready for future provider
>>>>> upgrades.
>>>>> >      >
>>>>> >      > or maybe you want to develop an ipv6-only consumer/SOHO
>>>>> router that works
>>>>> >      > on ipv4-only ISPs.
>>>>> >      >
>>>>> >      > or maybe you want to deploy a rogue ipv6-only network on an
>>>>> otherwise
>>>>> >      > ipv4-only organization, to prove a point.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >     None of these sound like anyone would want to do that...
>>>>> >
>>>>> >     Gert Doering
>>>>> >              -- NetMaster
>>>>> >     --
>>>>> >     have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
>>>>> >
>>>>> >     SpaceNet AG                      Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard,
>>>>> Ingo Lalla,
>>>>> >                                                 Karin Schuler,
>>>>> Sebastian Cler
>>>>> >     Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14
>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen+14?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>       Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann
>>>>> >     D-80807 Muenchen                 HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen)
>>>>> >     Tel: [phone]         USt-IdNr.: DE813185279
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
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