Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-device-profile last call

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Thu, 29 January 2015 20:39 UTC

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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 09:39:19 +1300
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
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To: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>, "Fred Baker (fred)" <fred@cisco.com>
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Cc: "draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-device-profile.all@tools.ietf.org" <draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-device-profile.all@tools.ietf.org>, V6 Ops List <v6ops@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-device-profile last call
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To be honest I stopped tracking this draft a long time ago,
so didn't speak up during the first WGLC. But I think I'm
in the rough with Lorenzo. The document reads like somebody's
procurement spec, not like a set of recommendations for
generic interoperability. And the devil is in the details.
For example, I noticed a point where I have a little skin
in the game:

   APP_REC#3:  Applications provided by the mobile device vendor that
               use Uniform Resource Identifiers (URIs) must follow
               [RFC3986].  For example, SIP applications must follow the
               correction defined in [RFC5954].

So, does that requirement include the updates to RFC 3986 (i.e. RFC 6874
and 7320)? And how is applying a correction to RFC 3261 an "example"
of following RFC 3986? And anyway, shouldn't this be in a SIP profile,
not here?

That's an illustration of why this document positioned as an IETF work
product makes me uncomfortable. I imagine there are many other similar
hidden issues.

    Brian

On 30/01/2015 00:53, Lorenzo Colitti wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 1:57 AM, Fred Baker (fred) <fred@cisco.com> wrote:
> 
>> draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-device-profile has been through Quite a bit of
>> change in the IESG. The ADs would like to see the working group read it
>> again and comment - working group last call - before they proceed.
> 
> 
> Ok, off we go again then.
> 
> I have objected to this document already, and was found to be in the rough.
> Therefore, I must assume that rough WG consensus is that we need a document
> that looks something like this, and I will accordingly refrain from making
> any general statements on the scope, utility, and general content of the
> document, with which I continue to disagree.
> 
> However, I would be remiss if I did not at least draw attention to the
> following factual errors and/or inappropriate statements.
> 
> 
> 1. The wording "required features to connect 3GPP mobile devices to an
> IPv6-only or dual-stack wireless network" is factually incorrect. The vast
> majority of these recommendations are not required to connect to such
> networks, and are many are not even implemented by many popular mobile
> operating systems - which manage to connect just fine. After long
> discussions, that text was removed in -06. Why was it readded?
> 
> 
> 2. Previous versions of the document, including the version that passed
> IETF last call, contained the text:
> 
>    This document is not a standard, and conformance with it is not
>    required in order to claim conformance with IETF standards for IPv6.
>    The support of the full set of features may not be required in some
>    deployment contexts.  The authors believe that the support of a
>    subset of the features included in this protocol may lead to degraded
>    level of service in some deployment contexts.
> 
> That text remains accurate and that statement is still necessary. Why was
> it removed? It has been in the document since -06, and the words "this
> document is not a standard" have been in this document since -01.
> 
> 
> 3. I object to the statement "One of the major hurdles encountered by
> mobile operators is the availability of non-broken IPv6 implementation in
> mobile devices." I submit that if it were true, then we would observe no
> IPv6 deployment in mobile networks... but publicly-available data - e.g.,
> http://www.worldipv6launch.org/measurements/ - shows that multiple
> operators have deployed IPv6 to up to 30-65% of their footprint, using the
> same commercially-available devices that are used by customers of other
> operators. So claiming that "broken IPv6 implementations in mobile devices"
> are a major hurdle is at best incomplete and at worst incorrect.
> 
> 
> At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I am going yet again to say
> that that operational documents should be based on operational experience.
> I am not aware of any of the authors' employers having a substantial IPv6
> deployment (though I would be happy to see any data that the authors could
> provide to the contrary). On the other hand, the IPv6 lead on one of the
> operators that *has* deployed IPv6 no longer appears in the list of authors.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Lorenzo
> 
> 
> 
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