Re: [v6ops] Chair decision on WGLC for draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-device-04

[David Farmer <[e-mail]>]

On Sun, Nov 5, 2023 at 11:44 AM Gert Doering <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Sun, Nov 05, 2023 at 03:36:44PM +0100, Martin Hun??k wrote:
> > To be honest, I don't know from the top of my head.
> >
> > However, we don't see approx. 3.6 billion Android smartphones are all
> asking for their own /64 yet, do we? If all of those were in a single
> network, we would need /32 just for them. If Apple is to join the club, we
> will be on approx. /30. In reality, where there are multiple networks and
> where every single one of them had to somehow solve the higher demand, how
> much address space would this draft cost?
> >
> > Most of the time, /64 is useless for the phone. So much lost for a very
> little gain ...
>
> Actually, having /64s handed out to phones *in 3G/LTE/etc.* networks is
> a much less problematic use case, and this is due to the address
> distribution
> hierarchy.
>
> Over here in RIPE land, the smallest a RIPE member (=LIR) can get is a
> /32, or really a /29 nowadays, and (mobile) telcos are really expected to
> be a member of their respective RIR.
>
> In a /29, there's space for 34 billion (2^35) /64s, so even adding a
> few internal distribution/aggregation layers ("one /32 per country,
> one /40 per region") there are still sufficient /64s for each phone
> that could connect to "a region" - Telcos are good at this sort of
> sizing.
>
> Of course, if you get that wrong ("a /60 per cell, nobody would connect
> more than 16 IPv6-enabled phones here") it won't work.
>
> Now, with networks that are *not* LIRs - and most end user networks are
> expected to *not* become a RIR member, due to scaling on that side - and
> thus receiving a /56 or /48 from their address-distributing ISP, being
> able to hand out /64s "like they are free" on every wired or wifi segment
> is just not going to work out, thus creating avoidable annoyance on the
> customer-to-ISP side.
>

This is a consequence of RIPE's business model. ARIN has moved to a
business model where both end-users and LIRs are members. The business
models used by the RIRs need to be irrelevant to the architectural choices
we make.

Your argument above is hypocritical. If a /64 per phone is justified for
cell carriers, it should be justice for end-user customers as well. If it's
not okay for end-users, it should not be okay for cell carriers either.

If a cell carrier can get enough /64s to have one for every customer's cell
phone, then end-users should be able to do the same. If RIPE has to change
its policies to allow this, then so be it.

Thanks.
-- 
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David Farmer               Email:[e-mail]
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