Re: [v6ops] RFC7934
Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> Wed, 19 July 2017 05:19 UTC
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From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:19:18 +0200
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To: Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
Cc: IPv6 Ops WG <v6ops@ietf.org>, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [v6ops] RFC7934
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Prefix+iid=address. But iid is really a misnomer. On Jul 19, 2017 5:37 AM, "Mark Smith" <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> wrote: > On 19 July 2017 at 06:09, Alexandre Petrescu > <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Le 18/07/2017 à 21:28, Ted Lemon a écrit : > >> > >> Alexandre, it's a really important recommendation of the document that > the > >> host be allowed to allocate /its own/ addresses, > > > > > > I dont understand how a host can allocate its own addresses. Or do you > > mean IID? > > > > I'm sure that is what Ted fundamentally means, although it extends a > bit beyond choosing just an IID. It also involves how many IIDs to > generate and use with the received prefixes (one for all prefixes, one > per prefix, or even mulitple IIDs per prefix) to create addresses. > > > (we are very far from Host deciding an address, suggesting it to the > > network, and the network update the routes - but I think you dont mean > > that either.) > > > > Alex > > > >> rather than having to rely on the correctness of the DHCP IA_NA > >> implementation. So the language you are proposing would completely > change > >> that. > >> > >> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Alexandre Petrescu > >> <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> > wrote: > >> > >> I agree that in the past there may have existed a risk of cellular > >> networks assigning a single IPv6 address (w/o even a plen) to one UE. > >> So one wanted a recommendation against DHCPv6 single address per End > >> node. > >> > >> However, I still think this RFC is a mis-written recommendation. > >> > >> It would have been much simpler to RECOMMEND to allocate multiple > >> addresses per End node, as many as that End node requires, be them > >> individual addresses, or addresses aggregated into prefixes, or multiple > >> prefixes. > >> > >> But the current recommendation as it stands looks weird. > >> > >> Le 18/07/2017 à 17:23, Jen Linkova a écrit : > >> > >> I have read the draft and re-read rfc7934 and now I'm completely > confused. > >> First of all, I can not see where rfc7934 says that DHCPv6 is not > >> recommended. > >> > >> > >> RFC7934: > >> > >> In order to avoid the problems described above and preserve the > Internet's > >> ability to support new applications that use more than one > >> IPv6 address, it is RECOMMENDED that IPv6 network deployments provide > >> multiple IPv6 addresses from each prefix to general-purpose hosts. > >> > >> > >> What makes one think that some network deployment might block the > forming > >> of multiple IPv6 addresses from each prefix? > >> > >> Or maybe the "from each prefix" is superfluous? > >> > >> Because I dont think there is any method that provides a prefix yet > >> restricts the use to just one address in that prefix. > >> > >> If a Router sends an RA to many Hosts then each of these Hosts may > >> configure many addresses within it. > >> > >> If a Router sends an RA unicast to a Host then that Host may configure > >> many addresses within it. > >> > >> If an address is delivered by a DHCP Server, then that is an address > >> without any prefix specified. > >> > >> If a prefix is delegated by a DHCP Server then a receiving Client may > >> configure many addresses within that prefix. > >> > >> To support future use cases, it is NOT RECOMMENDED to impose a hard > limit > >> on the size of the address pool assigned to a host. > >> > >> > >> What do you mean? Is that pool a DHCP pool? What is an example of > >> someone imposing a hard limit on the size of that pool? > >> > >> Particularly, it is NOT RECOMMENDED to limit a host to only one IPv6 > >> address per prefix. > >> > >> > >> I did not see any place where there is such a restriction. I wonder > >> what is an example where a Host was limited to only one IPv6 address > >> formed out of a prefix. > >> > >> Due to the drawbacks imposed by requiring explicit requests for address > >> space (see Section 4), it is RECOMMENDED that the network give the host > the > >> ability to use new addresses without requiring explicit requests. This > can > >> be achieved either by allowing the host > >> to form new addresses autonomously (e.g., via SLAAC) or by providing > >> the host with a dedicated /64 prefix. > >> > >> > >> This "either or" sounds like exclusive or. But on cellular networks the > >> Host is provided a dedicated prefix _and_ forms new addresses > autonomously. > >> > >> This is confusing. > >> > >> Using stateful address assignment (DHCPv6 IA_NA or IA_TA) to provide > >> multiple addresses when the host connects (e.g., the approximately 30 > >> addresses that can fit into a single packet) > >> > >> > >> ? is there such a restriction in the DHCP spec? Is it that DHCP > >> Ack/Advertise could carry only 30 addresses? > >> > >> would accommodate current clients, but it sets a limit on the number of > >> addresses available to hosts when they attach and therefore limits > >> the development of future applications. > >> > >> > >> Yes, it would set a limit _if_ DHCP had such a limit. Do you think DHCP > >> has a limit in the number of addresses it could assign in an > >> Ack or Advertise? > >> > >> The maximum number of IPv6 addresses that can be provided in a single > >> DHCPv6 packet, given a typical MTU of 1500 bytes or smaller, is > >> approximately 30. > >> > >> > >> Do we have a packet dump showing this? I am asking because 30 addresses > >> make for 480bytes... > >> > >> Jen said: > >> > >> I had to use all my imagination and still not sure how the phrase 'it > >> is RECOMMENDED that the network give the host the ability to use new > >> addresses without requiring explicit requests.' can be read as 'DHCPv6 > is > >> not recommended'. > >> > >> > >> Because SLAAC does not obtain addresses by using Requests. That's DHCP > >> who uses Requests to obtain addresses. > >> > >> That RECOMMENDation is clearly written by someone who has some deep > >> disapproval of DHCP. > >> > >> Secondly, the statement 'a host which uses DHCPv6 IA_NA or IA_TA cannot > >> use new addresses without requesting them from a DHCPv6 server > >> on the network.' does not seem to be accurate. As this statement > >> appears to be the key point of your document, I believe it needs to > >> be fixed before we can proceed. > >> > >> > >> On my side, I can agree. But that is your discussion. > >> > >> Alex > >> > >> _______________________________________________ v6ops mailing list > >> v6ops@ietf.org <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org> > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops > >> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops> > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > v6ops mailing list > > v6ops@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops >
- [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-h… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Job Snijders
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Erik Kline
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… james woodyatt
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… joel jaeggli
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… james woodyatt
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Scott Morizot
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Scott Morizot
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Scott Morizot
- Re: [v6ops] RFC7934 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] RFC7934 Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] RFC7934 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] RFC7934 Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] RFC7934 Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] RFC7934 Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] RFC7934 Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] RFC7934 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] RFC7934 Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] RFC7934 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] RFC7934 Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] RFC7934 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] RFC7934 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] RFC7934 Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] RFC7934 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Tim Chown
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Tim Chown
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Tim Chown
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Tim Chown
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-hi… Tim Chown
- Re: [v6ops] Fwd: New Version Notification for dra… Nick Hilliard