Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings

Exactly!

So the dogfood that we need to try (now) is the one that can sever the “real” market, not the one that could serve the marked when they are ready to replace (in a big %) all the apps and devices that are IPv4 only. We could try this in a follow up phase (actually there is an SSID for that already).

Regards,
Jordi

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com>
Responder a: <furry13@gmail.com>
Fecha: lunes, 17 de julio de 2017, 16:24
Para: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
CC: IPv6 Ops WG <v6ops@ietf.org>, Jim Martin <jim@daedelus.com>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
Asunto: Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings

    On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 12:10 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
    <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
    > If the end-users and enterprises are forced to switch to IPv6 only in their LANs, overnight, who is going to pay for replacing IP cameras, home automation, and many other old devices, that still work, but are IPv4-only?

    To be honest I'm a bit lost now. Does anything I've said makes you
    think that we are suggesting to migrate ALL end-user devices and
    enterprise network on this planet to IPv6-only overnight? If it does,
    my apologies, it was not what I meant.
    I do not believe that switching between two existing SSID at one
    conference is going to have such a world-wide impact ;)

    > -----Mensaje original-----
    > De: Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com>
    > Responder a: <furry13@gmail.com>
    > Fecha: lunes, 17 de julio de 2017, 16:00
    > Para: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
    > CC: IPv6 Ops WG <v6ops@ietf.org>, Jim Martin <jim@daedelus.com>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
    > Asunto: Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings
    >
    >     On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 6:44 PM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
    >     <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
    >     > I’m saying:
    >     >
    >     > 1) We should not try experiments in the IETF network, it has been the rule for ages.
    >     > 2) If we decide to change that rule, we should try what is good for the market, not what we “wish”
    >
    >     Could you pls elaborate on why proving that IPv6-only/NAT64 network
    >     works (or if it does not, identifying the issues and getting them
    >     fixed) is not good for the market? If, as you said, nobody is doing
    >     Ipv6-only (and we have seen a number of comments stating the
    >     opposite), wouldn't it be good for them if we prove that v6-only works
    >     and start working on issues? If, as some people have said, there are
    >     Ipv6-only network out >
    >     > Turning off IPv4 in the WAN, but keeping some sort of IPv4 connectivity, is feasible. This is what we need to try.
    >
    >     >
    >     >
    >     > -----Mensaje original-----
    >     > De: Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com>
    >     > Responder a: <furry13@gmail.com>
    >     > Fecha: lunes, 17 de julio de 2017, 10:42
    >     > Para: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
    >     > CC: IPv6 Ops WG <v6ops@ietf.org>, Jim Martin <jim@daedelus.com>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
    >     > Asunto: Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings
    >     >
    >     >     On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 6:37 PM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
    >     >     <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
    >     >     > Tell your bank, your university, your library, etc., to try that.
    >     >     >
    >     >     > I now that some networks (mainly related to IETF work, vendors, etc.), are doing that, but not in a general market.
    >     >
    >     >     Are you saying IETF should wait until everyone else has done it and
    >     >     proved it works and only then we feel safe enough to try it? ;)
    >     >
    >     >     > -----Mensaje original-----
    >     >     > De: Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com>
    >     >     > Responder a: <furry13@gmail.com>
    >     >     > Fecha: lunes, 17 de julio de 2017, 10:34
    >     >     > Para: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
    >     >     > CC: IPv6 Ops WG <v6ops@ietf.org>, Jim Martin <jim@daedelus.com>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
    >     >     > Asunto: Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings
    >     >     >
    >     >     >     On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 6:17 PM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
    >     >     >     <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
    >     >     >     > In the real world, you will not disable IPv4 in the LANs of end-users or enterprise customers (at least not now, may be in 3-5 years from now).
    >     >     >
    >     >     >     I disagree with this statement. There are networks doing this. Right
    >     >     >     here right now.
    >     >     >
    >     >     >     > -----Mensaje original-----
    >     >     >     > De: v6ops <v6ops-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de "Brzozowski, John" <John_Brzozowski@comcast.com>
    >     >     >     > Responder a: <John_Brzozowski@comcast.com>
    >     >     >     > Fecha: lunes, 17 de julio de 2017, 10:14
    >     >     >     > Para: Noah <noah@neo.co.tz>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
    >     >     >     > CC: Jim Martin <jim@daedelus.com>, IPv6 Ops WG <v6ops@ietf.org>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>
    >     >     >     > Asunto: Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >     Agree with Noah and Ted.
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >     Note the I-D explicitly documents that a fallback, dual stack SSID must remain available as Noah mentions below.
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >     I fail to see how doing this will harm or discriminate.
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >     We do need to eat our own dogfood, otherwise we are hypocrites.
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >     John
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >     +1-484-962-0060
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >     From:
    >     >     >     >     v6ops <v6ops-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Noah <noah@neo.co.tz>
    >     >     >     >     Date: Monday, July 17, 2017 at 09:01
    >     >     >     >     To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
    >     >     >     >     Cc: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>, v6ops <v6ops@ietf.org>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Jim Martin <jim@daedelus.com>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>
    >     >     >     >     Subject: Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >     FWIW and to cater for all, would a fallback dual stack SSID work for the status quo while this 2nd v6 SSID is also experimented upon which is a great idea considering this is IETF.
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >     Noah
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >     On 17 Jul 2017 9:54 a.m., "Ted Lemon" <mellon@fugue.com> wrote:
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >     I don't think this is a social justice issue.   Does the IETF think that IPv6 works, or not?   If we think it works, and we have been working for what, 20 years, to make it work, and we have designed all this great
    >     >     >     >      transition tech, then why on earth would we not want to use it?   This isn't "one draft."   This is roughly half the work of the IETF for the past two decades.
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >     On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 8:51 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >     So we agree to change the rules so that we use this network for every ID that want to experiment with it? Otherwise we discriminate among different authors …
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >     I think is a really bad precedent.
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >     Regards,
    >     >     >     >     Jordi
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >     -----Mensaje original-----
    >     >     >     >     De: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
    >     >     >     >     Responder a: <mellon@fugue.com>
    >     >     >     >     Fecha: lunes, 17 de julio de 2017, 8:48
    >     >     >     >     Para: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
    >     >     >     >     CC: IPv6 Ops WG <v6ops@ietf.org>, Jim Martin <jim@daedelus.com>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>, Suresh
    >     >     >     >      Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>
    >     >     >     >     Asunto: Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings
    >     >     >     >
    >     >     >     >         I don't actually know what the goal of the IETF network is other than to provide connectivity.   Because of the vicissitudes of hotel topology, it is often the case that IETF participants experience issues with the
    >     >     >     >      network at least once or twice per IETF despite the best efforts (and they are quite exceptional) of the NOC team.   I do not really see what the damage is that you are hoping to protect against here.   Users who don't read the NOC announcement?   No sympathy.
    >     >     >     >       Sorry.
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