Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops
Ola Thoresen <ola@nlogic.no> Mon, 14 September 2020 14:20 UTC
Return-Path: <ola@nlogic.no>
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1F193A083B for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 07:20:21 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.12
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.12 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Wq1CCAwp0hp for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 07:20:19 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail.nytt.no (poseidon.nytt.no [178.62.243.165]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20ADC3A07F2 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 07:20:18 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from olen-jobb.nlogic.no (host-77-234-50-66.lynet.no [77.234.50.66]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.nytt.no (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 08EEKApe002196 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Mon, 14 Sep 2020 16:20:10 +0200
To: v6ops@ietf.org
References: <159985752195.15551.2657932726923781035@ietfa.amsl.com> <VI1P194MB0285E344B7B3E9697E6ED608AE240@VI1P194MB0285.EURP194.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <3FA82C44-0005-45BA-AB09-FAE63C8CD626@gmail.com> <VI1P194MB028561F81F5118ABC14967DFAE230@VI1P194MB0285.EURP194.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <3B5995B1-CD7A-444C-AD64-37C09E46A763@thehobsons.co.uk> <4fa01d01-bc2e-0f01-77f1-13dd4f6f2430@hit.bme.hu> <VI1P194MB0285FCDBFB6A86DF954D1782AE230@VI1P194MB0285.EURP194.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
From: Ola Thoresen <ola@nlogic.no>
Message-ID: <e0e4e5cf-1563-fca1-1388-68c8789384de@nlogic.no>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 16:20:08 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <VI1P194MB0285FCDBFB6A86DF954D1782AE230@VI1P194MB0285.EURP194.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/Rb5ZQqK_J_tdoDxtqIR3PEWSsxM>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops
X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: v6ops discussion list <v6ops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/v6ops/>
List-Post: <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 14:20:22 -0000
Khaled: You have promoted this discussion again and again over many years, yet you do not listen to any of the objections that people have. You say this is not a new protocol, but you still specify a header format in section 4 of your draft. You then state in section 5.2 that: 5. Advantages of IPv10. 2) Allows IPv4 only hosts to exist and communicate with IPv6 only hosts even after the depletion of the IPv4 address space. But this is an obvious lie. What this "IPv10" allows, is for "IPv10" hosts to talk to other "IPv10" hosts if ALL of the routers on the internet between those two hosts also are "IPv10" enabled. That is NOT the same as allowing IPv4 _only_ hosts to talk to IPv6 _only_ hosts. They both need to actively talk and understand this "IPv10" protocol and header format. You clearly do not grasp this, but this is the big issue with your draft. You ARE suggesting that every single host on the internet should add another protocol to its stack, and you even believe that this can happen very fast: 5) IPv10 support on "all" Internet connected hosts can be deployed in a very short time by technology companies developing OSs (for hosts and networking devices, and there will be no dependence on enterprise users and it is just a software development process in the NIC cards of all hosts to allow encapsulating both IPv4 and IPv6 in the same IP packet header. While we are still struggling to get lots of devices to support IPv6, which has been in development and widely supported in operating systems and hardware for more than a decade. So please. Until you understand what you are really trying to achieve here, do not expect any progress in getting this accepted by the community - and especially not the IPv6 community. Rgds. /Ola (T) On 14.09.2020 15:55, Khaled Omar wrote: > Hi, > > Don't copy the opinion that was mentioned there, use your own mind and give a clear opinion to make the discussion beneficial. > > Maybe they have their own reasoning. > > Best regards, > > Khaled Omar > > -----Original Message----- > From: v6ops <v6ops-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Lencse Gábor > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2020 3:52 PM > To: v6ops@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops > > Simon, you are completely right: this thing has already been discussed on int-area mailing list in 2017. It was pointed out that the name was misleading, as well as that this solution was not at all viable as an > IPv6 transition mechanism. > > I do not see any reason to reiterate the topic on this mailing list. > > Best regards, > > Gábor > > 14/09/2020 15:09 keltezéssel, Simon Hobson írta: >> Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@outlook.com> wrote: >> >>>> Is it possible to reserve a slot for the IPv10 I-D to be presented completely during the v6ops wg meeting session? >>>> >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-omar-ipv10-06 >> I only had a quick look, but doesn't this just re-hash discussions/documentation that's already been done elsewhere ? >> Also, I think calling it IPv10 is just asking to cause confusion - it >> should be rejected just for that ;-) >> >> Simon >> >> _______________________________________________ >> v6ops mailing list >> v6ops@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops > > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops
- [v6ops] v6ops - New Meeting Session Request for I… IETF Meeting Session Request Tool
- Re: [v6ops] v6ops - New Meeting Session Request f… Khaled Omar
- Re: [v6ops] v6ops - New Meeting Session Request f… Khaled Omar
- Re: [v6ops] v6ops - New Meeting Session Request f… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] v6ops - New Meeting Session Request f… Khaled Omar
- Re: [v6ops] v6ops - New Meeting Session Request f… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] v6ops - New Meeting Session Request f… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] v6ops - New Meeting Session Request f… Khaled Omar
- [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Khaled Omar
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Simon Hobson
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Khaled Omar
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Clark Gaylord
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Lencse Gábor
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Khaled Omar
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Lencse Gábor
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Khaled Omar
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Ola Thoresen
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Khaled Omar
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Tom Herbert
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Ola Thoresen
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Khaled Omar
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Khaled Omar
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Wilhelm Boeddinghaus
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Khaled Omar
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Warren Kumari
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Khaled Omar
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Wilhelm Boeddinghaus
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Khaled Omar
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Khaled Omar
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Khaled Omar
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Khaled Omar
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Khaled Omar
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Warren Kumari
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Bjoern A. Zeeb
- Re: [v6ops] IPv10 Discussion in v6ops Khaled Omar