Re: [v6ops] ULA and IPv4 - draft-liu-v6ops-ula-usage-analysis

Mark ZZZ Smith <markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au> Tue, 05 November 2013 20:27 UTC

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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 12:26:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark ZZZ Smith <markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au>
To: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>
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Cc: "v6ops@ietf.org" <v6ops@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] ULA and IPv4 - draft-liu-v6ops-ula-usage-analysis
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>________________________________
> From: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>
>To: Mark ZZZ Smith <markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au> 
>Cc: Christopher Palmer <Christopher.Palmer@microsoft.com>om>; Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>uk>; "v6ops@ietf.org" <v6ops@ietf.org> 
>Sent: Wednesday, 6 November 2013 6:37 AM
>Subject: Re: [v6ops] ULA and IPv4 - draft-liu-v6ops-ula-usage-analysis
> 
>
>
>On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 4:32 AM, Mark ZZZ Smith <markzzzsmith@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>Happier Eyeballs
>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-baker-happier-eyeballs-00.html
>
>
>Great. We can't be bothered to get things right in the network, so we just tell hosts to try everything all the time in the hope that something will work.
>

Networks can lose packets, regardless of whether they're IPv4 or IPv6.

I don't think the problem happy eyeballs is solving isn't really any different to the problem where multiple IPv4 A records are returned and a client has to walk through them until it succeeds. Fortunately that seems to be reliable enough that end users don't have to wait for connection timeouts as the returned list of A records is walked through. But if they were (are?) waiting, then happy-eyeballs for only IPv4 would also be beneficial.

The happy eyeballs technique could be considered to be another form of retransmission to recover from packet loss. A host has to recover from packet loss whether it is within a single protocol, or across multiple ones used by and for the same application.

>
>It's very easy to say "we should just have smarter algorithms", especially if we expect that someone other than ourselves will be writing those algorithms, but I have yet to see a proposal that's sanely implementable, high performance, and low load (even considering the fact that you'd have to completely overhaul the socket API and app the apps using it before you could deploy it).
>

I think Multipath TCP fills that gap, as it is transparent to applications, unless they start directly dealing with IPv4/IPv6 addresses. I think the combination of Multipath TCP and happy-eyeballs at initial MPTCP connection establishment (to bring up multiple subflows concurrently) would be even better.

Regards,
Mark.