Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-device-profile-17.txt - C_REC#9 464XLAT
Kossut Tomasz - Hurt <Tomasz.Kossut@orange.com> Mon, 16 February 2015 10:47 UTC
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From: Kossut Tomasz - Hurt <Tomasz.Kossut@orange.com>
To: BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, Alexandru Petrescu <alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com>, "Heatley, Nick" <nick.heatley@ee.co.uk>
Thread-Topic: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-device-profile-17.txt - C_REC#9 464XLAT
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Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 10:47:45 +0000
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References: <20150212124226.3282.9774.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <54DCD464.3000907@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300490A7DD@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <6536E263028723489CCD5B6821D4B21303DEA4B0@UK30S005EXS06.EEAD.EEINT.CO.UK> <54DDF37D.1050405@gmail.com> <6536E263028723489CCD5B6821D4B21303DEA605@UK30S005EXS06.EEAD.EEINT.CO.UK> <54DE0BA8.8020908@gmail.com> <6536E263028723489CCD5B6821D4B21303DEA722@UK30S005EXS06.EEAD.EEINT.CO.UK> <54DE227D.9050303@gmail.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B93300490B969@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
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Subject: Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-device-profile-17.txt - C_REC#9 464XLAT
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Hi, IPv6-only + CLAT+NAT64(no dns64) is used in Orange Poland - somewhere~ 30% mobile users. You won't see this in worldwide IPv6 stats {"No." of IPv6 users are measured form traffic -ipv4/ipv6 - typical mobile user (smartphone) generates up to 6 times lower traffic comparing to lines users..} Assuming our experience: 1. The best for mobile nowadays is CLAT+PLAT+DNS *One path for IPv4 traffic (always via CLAT) *ALG’s treated as NAT44 *IPv4 literal & domain use same path *One path for IPv6 traffic (native IPv6) *Motivation for native IPv6 content *Application address family independent *65% - traffic from subscribers is native IPv6 *Google Nexus, Sony,HTC, Samung,LG, WindowsPhone, supports CLAT. Cheers, tk -----Original Message----- From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com] Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 7:43 AM To: Alexandru Petrescu; Heatley, Nick Cc: v6ops@ietf.org Subject: Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-device-profile-17.txt - C_REC#9 464XLAT Hi Alex, Please see inline. Cheers, Med -----Message d'origine----- De : Alexandru Petrescu [mailto:alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com] Envoyé : vendredi 13 février 2015 17:13 À : Heatley, Nick; BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN Cc : v6ops@ietf.org Objet : Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-device-profile-17.txt - C_REC#9 464XLAT Le 13/02/2015 16:33, Heatley, Nick a écrit : > > > -----Original Message----- From: Alexandru Petrescu > [mailto:alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com] Sent: 13 February 2015 14:35 > To: Heatley, Nick; mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Cc: v6ops@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: > draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-device-profile-17.txt - C_REC#9 464XLAT > > Le 13/02/2015 14:14, Heatley, Nick a écrit : >> Hi Alex, Yes, that is wrong. You can ping any IPv4 literal from a >> 464xlat device. My handset only has an IPv6 address + CLAT and I am >> pinging 8.8.8.8 :-)) > > Ok, I see. I didnt know CLAT-on-device was required when using > v6-only APNs. > > [Heatley, Nick] For service continuity with IPv4, on an IPv6-only > bearer use CLAT. A slightly pedantic note, if you have a "dual stack > APN" but the device only requests IPv6 then the device will receive an > IPv6 bearer and requires CLAT. You will hear from Ross and me talking > about having a single APN supporting all modes, IPv4, IPv4v6 and IPv6 > bearers. There may be business reasons for this, as well as avoiding > consumers having to change APNs. In my understanding 464xlat/clat are trials these days. [Med] No, it is in use in live networks, including within our Group. They could be improved before going live. If the 464xlat/clat happened elsewhere than on the user terminal (e.g. BAse Station) I think more of these terminals could be accommodated, more business. [Med] If all applications are AF-independent (including IPv4 referrals are not in use or address synthesis a la RFC6052 is supported), then CLAT can be avoided. Some operators want to adopt an IPv6-only connectivity mode but with a condition to provide the same level of service as IPv4; For those CLAT is even a must. It might happen that other operators can judge that the broken applications under an IPv6-only mode + NAT64 are not important; for those CLAT is not needed. These reasons, among others, are why we set the language to 'should'. > That means that the device vendors MUST implement CLAT in the > smartphones which connect to a v6-only APN. It is a too strong > requirement. > > [Heatley, Nick] Today's reality is that operators cannot take devices > to IPv6-only mode of operation without CLAT. In the future will other > alternatives appear? Alternatives there are very many. E.g. 464lat/clat to run on an operator-controlled network device, not on end-user terminal. E.g. use a v4-APN and v6-in-v4 encapsulation on the end-user device. 3GPP also designed a DS-MIPv6, not sure whether you are aware of it. It had the same goal of terminal on v6-only link. [Med] All those are no options in the mobile context. IPv6-only + NAT64 is the mode that is currently adopted by several operators.
- [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-devic… internet-drafts
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Heatley, Nick
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Heatley, Nick
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Heatley, Nick
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Heatley, Nick
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Ca By
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Ca By
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Metzler, Dan J
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Erik Kline
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Heatley, Nick
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Kossut Tomasz - Hurt
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Kossut Tomasz - Hurt
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Metzler, Dan J
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… jouni korhonen
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… jouni korhonen
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Kossut Tomasz - Hurt
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-d… Alexandru Petrescu