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Re: [v6ops] PI heresy [draft-ietf-v6ops-ula-usage-recommendations - work or abandon?]

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Fri, 13 November 2015 00:34 UTC

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To: George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1511050424410.1055@moonbase.nullrouteit.net> <20151106.063106.74659839.sthaug@nethelp.no> <CAO42Z2x3O8A1XKqN3PTcvM=xpF8W_WNSL1rVhHQ4ZY5HbVG=OQ@mail.gmail.com> <20151106.081425.74651560.sthaug@nethelp.no> <6ED54502-C5D1-4D09-877C-FE283E3EF142@delong.com> <5644EE46.7000805@gmail.com> <CAKr6gn1KokTGJ0cg70OR=q8Uv-1mr7TmjcYJwLVgsK_3i6tcpw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
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Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 13:34:46 +1300
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Subject: Re: [v6ops] PI heresy [draft-ietf-v6ops-ula-usage-recommendations - work or abandon?]
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On 13/11/2015 13:20, George Michaelson wrote:
> I'm sorry Brian, but as I said in another reply, this is just specious.
> It's true in as much as IF all SME's wound up in BGP we'd have a heat-death
> problem.
> 
> But a) they won't arrive tomorrow, or next year: it takes time,  and b)
> other solutions to routing will emerge. 

No doubt. But Mark is correct: we have to defer the crisis until the solution
is available. We deferred it once by introducing CIDR 20 years ago. Encouraging
PI for all customers is antiCIDR, and that's a problem.

   Brian

> Like, giving them scoped /48 out of
> a block which has export limits under some covering prefix, and limits the
> local visibility of their BGP independence to within some constrained
> context.
> 
> It never ceases to amaze me that I tell a yak-herder my BGP failures,
> forcing local path selection, with no subsequent alteration in routing of
> concern to them, *and we're not even shipping packets*
> 
> Tony Hain amongst others proposed models of geographic and scoped
> assignment which were shot down in flames by the usual suspects. Because
> its "not how we do it now" people don't like talking about this sensibly,
> but there are rational models of address management which preserve BGP like
> behaviour, but don't expose all routing decisions globally, that only have
> local meaning.
> 
> G
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 5:53 AM, Brian E Carpenter <
> brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Please let's not pretend we're discussing the ULA draft any more.
>>
>> On 13/11/2015 07:32, Owen DeLong wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>> How is a /48 PI hard to acquire? Where?
>>
>> As others have implied, that isn't the point. The point (and I expect
>> we had this argument on the RRG list some years ago) is that we can't
>> put 10,000,000 /48 entries into BGP. So if we go around encouraging
>> all small enterprises to get a PI prefix we are all doomed.
>>
>>    Brian
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> v6ops mailing list
>> v6ops@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops
>>
>

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