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From: Martin =?utf-8?B?SHVuxJtr?= <martin.hunek@tul.cz>
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 draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-device-05.txt
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Hi folks,

After meeting the authors, the WG chair, and the document Shepard, I would =
like to express my current stance concerning this draft.

=46irst of all, I would like to say thank you all for a long, in-depth, but=
 friendly discussion.

Personally, I see those Pros:
=2D It solves problems caused by devices having too many addresses (like vi=
rtualization with separate L3 segment with ND proxy or specifically Google =
ChromeOS devices having 20+ addresses)
=2D When addresses are grouped into a single prefix, they are easier to tra=
ck by the network operator
=2D The client/host is able to use as many addresses in the single prefix a=
s it wants without the side effects on the rest of the network
=2D When the used addresses are registered, I could allow to maintain AAAA =
records for services behind the device (additional draft/RFC in the process)

Risks for the network operators:
1) The loss of the ability to differentiate between Routers extending the n=
etwork outside of the device itself (currently using DHCPv6-PD) and hosts
2) The ability of network extension outside a single device might be unwant=
ed in enterprise-style networks and may introduce security risks for them o=
r the risk of not complying with the local laws/regulations
3) With PIO flags set to A=3D1, L=3D1, and P=3D1: As it is currently writte=
n, it increases the load on routers in case of peer-to-peer communication. =
The L flag is de facto ignored by PD clients as they are not locally reacha=
ble when not using SLAAC. To maintain local reachability, the operator need=
s to set 2 prefixes (one for SLAAC: A=3D1, L=3D1, P=3D0; the second virtual=
 with A=3Dx, L=3Dx, P=3D1 where x is preferably 0 but would work with 1 too=
).
4) As the proposed method is not usable for every network, it MUST NOT be v=
iewed as a replacement of the SLAAC (I've been told that it is not the case=
 by authors and WG chair - so no problem)

Cons:
1) The requirement of SLAAC ability (/64 per device) is unnecessary and mak=
es this method unusable for the address-space constraint networks
2) Address plans of the early adopters had to be changed
3) It causes pressure on network operators to provide additional address sp=
ace while simple network space extension doesn't have to be possible. This =
produces additional pressure on LIRs and could also lead to RIRs policy cha=
nges
4) The P flag draft should be the Normative reference

There is no need for the requirement in section 7, 2nd point. Some implemen=
tations may not depend on internal SLAAC use. They can use proprietary algo=
rithms to generate addresses with shorter IID or the DHCPv6 IA_NA. For such=
 devices, it is OK to ask for less than /64 currently needed for SLAAC auto=
configuration. If the client asks for less than /64, there is no point for =
the server to MUST give at least SLAAC usable prefix. It should be able to =
provide what the client asked for, while it can provide more. That is why I=
 can see the Con 1).

There is no harm in the client indicating that it needs less than/64 and fo=
r the server to honor such a request. Such signaling is possible by the "pr=
efix-length hint" field.

However, I see the reasoning why the network SHOULD expect that the prefix =
requested by the client will be /64 as there probably will be the majority =
of the devices asking for the /64.

Con 2) is a minor problem, but it could cause additional work for early ado=
pters and could be seen as a sign of the immaturity of IPv6 addressing phil=
osophy.

The con 3) is the situation I'm currently facing as the network administrat=
or of the university network, having just /48. It is specific to some netwo=
rks, so I'm just stating that it could be a problem for some networks.

The Con 4): One thing I've just realized is that the draft in 6man (pio-pfl=
ag) is not a normative reference. However, this seems an integral part of t=
he method as it describes both client behaviour and network signalling. As =
the 6man draft has a direct effect on how this draft behaves, it should pro=
bably be published together with the draft in 6man with a proper normative =
cross-reference.

The major risks I can see with the draft are the numbers 1 and 2. While I, =
as the "enterprise-style" network administrator, would be OK with the clien=
t asking for a prefix to run containers or VMs, I would not want to give a =
prefix to a Wi-Fi router extending my network (possibly without required se=
curity). Not to mention other adverse effects that unmanaged Wi-Fi routers =
have on the spectrum and so on. I think that this concern must be solved, b=
ut not necessary here in this document. I know that I cannot guarantee this=
 in IPv4, but this document doesn't talk about IPv4. IPv6 could solve the i=
ssues that IPv4 does not.

As I've been told that this is not here to replace SLAAC in the future for =
those networks that could not use this, I'm less worried about this draft. =
Apart from the unnecessary MUST in section 7 and missing signalling of the =
client's intent to extend the network to an external interface, I'm reasona=
bly fine with it. However, without that missing signalling (and getting mor=
e address space from my upstream), I don't see the possibility of using it =
in my network now.

Once again, thank you all for your time and informative discussion.

Regards,
Martin

Dne ned=C4=9Ble 5. listopadu 2023 17:17:13 CET, Jen Linkova napsal(a):
> Hello,
>=20
> Following the conclusion of the WGLC (thanks to everyone who
> commented!), we've submitted a -05 version with the following changes:
> 1. Making it more clear that the draft requires the network to
> delegate a SLAAC-suitable prefix, and /64 is currently required for
> SLAAC to work - but it  doesn't have to be like that in the future.
> Examples also use /64. Brian, does it address your comment?
> 2. To address most of Ole's comments:
>   2.1 Making it explicit that the draft only covers the network
> behavior, while host requirements are out of scope.
>   2.2 Clarifying that the network can support both flat and
> hierarchical models - it's up to the host to specify the hint.
> 3. Rewriting examples in the prefix length consideration section to
> make it clearer that the proposal does not require an excessive amount
> of IPv6 space.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Sun, Nov 5, 2023 at 4:54=E2=80=AFPM <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
> >
> > A new version of Internet-Draft draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-device-05.=
txt has
> > been successfully submitted by Jen Linkova and posted to the
> > IETF repository.
> >
> > Name:     draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-device
> > Revision: 05
> > Title:    Using DHCPv6-PD to Allocate Unique IPv6 Prefix per Client in =
Large Broadcast Networks
> > Date:     2023-11-05
> > Group:    v6ops
> > Pages:    20
> > URL:      https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-=
device-05.txt
> > Status:   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per=
=2Ddevice/
> > HTML:     https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-=
device-05.html
> > HTMLized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-p=
d-per-device
> > Diff:     https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-v6ops-=
dhcp-pd-per-device-05
> >
> > Abstract:
> >
> >    This document discusses an IPv6 deployment scenario when individual
> >    clients connected to large broadcast networks (such as enterprise
> >    networks or public Wi-Fi networks) are allocated unique prefixes via
> >    DHCPv6 Prefix Delegation (DHCPv6-PD).
> >
> >
> >
> > The IETF Secretariat
> >
> >
>=20
>=20
>=20


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