Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-addr-availability
Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com> Wed, 05 August 2015 08:13 UTC
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References: <201507061147.t66Bl1AE028312@irp-lnx1.cisco.com> <D1D96418.5E52E%wesley.george@twcable.com>
From: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2015 17:13:04 +0900
Message-ID: <CAKD1Yr2p0QjVRR2GehrM-vuoQjqXKNK-YKynUmRFPMfHgALtWg@mail.gmail.com>
To: "George, Wes" <wesley.george@twcable.com>
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Cc: "v6ops@ietf.org" <v6ops@ietf.org>, "draft-colitti-v6ops-host-addr-availability@tools.ietf.org" <draft-colitti-v6ops-host-addr-availability@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-addr-availability
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Wes, many of these comments will be addressed in a respin, so I'm picking only one to answer here. Section 5 - I think we need to cut this section down to a bare minimum or > eliminate it. Waving the NAT boogeyman isn't really the argument to lead > with, unless the authors or other OS manufacturers actually see this as a > credible alternative and are willing to implement it instead of other > options. Otherwise it's just FUD. It's more accurate at this point to say > that NAT doesn't exist for IPv6, because the IETF document is experimental > (IIRC, I'm writing this on a plane and can't check) and no implementations > really exist in the wild, so another solution is required. We've already > written plenty about why NATs are bad elsewhere. > Unfortunately NAT66 *is* a credible alternative, and implementations definitely do exist. I know for sure that Juniper ships a fully-stateful NAT implementation on the SRX (and I don't mean NPTv6, I mean fully-stateful NAT44-style address+port NAT), and I think I head that Cisco does too. That said, this document is about general-purpose hosts, so let's take Android as an example. Linux has had a fully-stateful NAT66 implementation since late 2012 - http://mirrors.bieringer.de/Linux+IPv6-HOWTO/nat-netfilter6..html - and members of the Android community have proposed enabled it multiple times, for example: https://android-review.googlesource.com/#/c/88648/ https://android-review.googlesource.com/#/c/88657/ These changes ended up not being included in the OS, but I think part of the motivation is that they would not have added any useful functionality that could not be obtained in a better way. The VPN code was rewritten in 5.0 to use per-app routing instead of in-device NAT (which fixed a series of IPv4 bugs as well), and that brought IPv6 support without needing to use NAT66. And even though stock Android does not yet support IPv6 tethering, NAT66 would not have provided any benefit because Android doesn't support networks that require explicit requests to obtain IPv6 addresses (i.e., DHCPv6-only networks) and thus can use ND proxying for tethering with no loss of functionality. On the other hand, for a device that supports DHCPv6-only networks that provide only one address, NAT66 *would* provide useful functionality: it would make it possible to provide IPv6 tethering and other functions that require more than one address on those networks.
- [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-addr-… fred
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Simon Perreault
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Sander Steffann
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Erik Kline
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Yury Shefer
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Ray Hunter
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Erik Kline
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Andrew 👽 Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Hemant Singh (shemant)
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Hemant Singh (shemant)
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Hemant Singh (shemant)
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Sander Steffann
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Tom Taylor
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Jouni Korhonen
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Erik Kline
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Mukom Akong T.
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Dave Thaler
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… George, Wes
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… George, Wes
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… George, Wes
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-colitti-v6ops-host-a… Alexandru Petrescu