Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//RE: new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhcpv6-slaac-problem
神明達哉 <jinmei@wide.ad.jp> Tue, 29 October 2013 19:59 UTC
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From: 神明達哉 <jinmei@wide.ad.jp>
To: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>
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Cc: "v6ops@ietf.org" <v6ops@ietf.org>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, "Ole Troan (otroan)" <otroan@cisco.com>, Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>, "draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhcpv6-slaac-problem@tools.ietf.org" <draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhcpv6-slaac-problem@tools.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//RE: new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhcpv6-slaac-problem
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At Tue, 29 Oct 2013 14:13:39 +0900, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com> wrote: > > 7) Programming: UDP vs. ICMP > > > > For a random programmer today, coding a server to receive the data on a > > UDP socket is a more familiar exercise than working with ICMP. Disclaimer: > > the value of "random" was chosen to be "me" for arbitrary reasons. This > > point is more of a rathole and a personal preference, probably. I think I > > remember Dave Thaler saying one of the mechanisms in Windows was way easier > > to extend than the other, but I do not remember which. > > ICMP is harder than UDP to implement; it often requires raw sockets or > kernel collaboration (e.g., on Linux RDNSS information can be read using > netlink. UDP is much simpler). On the other hand, I think stateful DHCPv6 > is a more complicated protocol to implement than RAs, with more message > types and so on. I don't know why Linux uses a non portable API, but I believe writing programs handling RA options like RDNSS is no harder than writing DHCPv6 client in terms of socket API. As long as the system supports RFC3542 you should be able to write a portable RA "client" pretty easily (meaning as easy/hard as writing some UDP client program). For example, FreeBSD's rtsold supports RDNSS and (AFAIK) only relies on the RFC3542 APIs. Also, since DHCP is trickier than other UDP applications in some points (it's more sensitive to which interface to use, and in some cases you need to make sure the source address is link-local, etc), it's quite likely that you'll need something like unusual APIs like RFC3542 or some non-portable system dependent interface to write a standard-compliant DHCP(v6) client. So, overall, I'd say the programming difficulty regarding UDP (DHCP) vs ICMP (RS/RA) is marginal. As I'm writing a response, I'll also make a comment on another, more minor point: At Tue, 29 Oct 2013 14:13:39 +0900, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com> wrote: > But you can't authenticate in DHCPv6 either, right? Whether you get an > unsolicited "here's some config parameters" RA or a unicast "thank you for > your request, here's some config parameters" DHCPv6 reply, the problem is > the same: is the source trustworthy? AIUI we don't have any solution for > this except DHCPv6 guard and RA guard, which are effectively the same > solution. I mean - we do have SEND and DHCPv6 authentication, but does > anyone implement those? If you mean the Delayed Authentication Protocol by DHCPv6 authentication, the WIDE DHCPv6 supports it: http://sourceforge.net/projects/wide-dhcpv6/ although I myself have only used it in testing. I heard some other vendors implemented it, too. (And, for that matter, it also supports the Information Refresh Time option (RFC4242)). -- jinmei
- [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhcpv6-… fred
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhc… Mikael Abrahamsson
- [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//RE: n… Liubing (Leo)
- [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//RE: n… Liubing (Leo)
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Ole Troan (otroan)
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Wuyts Carl
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… sthaug
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… sthaug
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Wuyts Carl
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Liubing (Leo)
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… 神明達哉
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… 神明達哉
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Sander Steffann
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Arturo Servin
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Xing Li
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Xing Li
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Xing Li
- [v6ops] Comments on draft-sun-v6ops-openv6-addres… meng.wei2
- Re: [v6ops] Comments on draft-sun-v6ops-openv6-ad… Qiong
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… james woodyatt
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… james woodyatt
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Tim Chown
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Tim Chown
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Weil, Jason
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Weil, Jason
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… 神明達哉
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Brian Haberman
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Andrew Yourtchenko
- [v6ops] Link layer lossage [DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hos… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Link layer lossage [DHCPv6/SLAAC Make… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Ray Hunter
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Weil, Jason
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6/SLAAC Make Hosts Confusing-//R… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhc… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhc… 神明達哉
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhc… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhc… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhc… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhc… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhc… Liubing (Leo)
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhc… Liubing (Leo)
- Re: [v6ops] new draft: draft-liu-bonica-v6ops-dhc… 神明達哉