Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies
Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org> Mon, 22 January 2018 19:20 UTC
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From: Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>
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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 20:20:07 +0100
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Cc: Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com>, Sander Steffann <sander@steffann.nl>, "v6ops@ietf.org WG" <v6ops@ietf.org>
To: Lee Howard <Lee@asgard.org>
References: <D687BC24.92CC1%lee@asgard.org> <A6995969-0C03-4261-92F4-331206825130@gmail.com> <D29099E6-510D-41DA-B998-6BF15E9FDE7F@gmail.com> <D68B9BCE.96312%lee@asgard.org>
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Subject: Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies
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>> Restated. Close? >> >>> On Jan 19, 2018, at 4:22 PM, Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> At least part of this commentary wound up in >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6180 >>> Guidelines for Using IPv6 Transition Mechanisms during IPv6 >>> Deployment. J. Arkko, F. Baker. May 2011. (Format: TXT=49679 bytes) >>> (Status: INFORMATIONAL) (DOI: 10.17487/RFC6180) >>> >>> I think Jari's view in that was that we needed to rein in the plethora >>> of transition technologies, and "if one has to translate, can we please >>> do so above the IP layer?" I added SIIT/NAT64, because I think there is >>> market relevance including several deployments of various kinds; any >>> mention of MAP-T or 464XLAT is SIIT/NAT64. But the basic recommendation >>> of RFC 6180 was: >>> - first choice, deploy native IPv6 - for scenarios in which IPv6 >>> islands are connected across IPv4 space, use dslite (a tunneling design). >>> - for scenarios in which IPv4 islands are connected across IPv6 space, >>> use dslite (a tunneling design). > > You would argue that 464xlat, MAP-E, and MAP-T are simply implementations > of SIIT/NAT64 (which you do, below), but it seems to me that they are also > used in these scenarios. In some cases the “island” is but a single > application on a mobile phone. > MAP-E is not an implementation of SIIT/NAT64. > For large networks, like access ISPs, mobile networks, and maybe campus > networks, the advice might be finer-grained: > - for scenarios in which IPv4 islands (e.g., households, a mobile phone, > or other stub network), consider: > — If you need home gateway support right now, use DS-Lite > — If you are using CGN anyway (such as mobile networks), consider > 464xlat, which allows native IPv6 end to end when possible, native IPv6 > end-to-translation-edge when IPv4 is needed to reach the other end, and > CLAT on the device or IPv4 edge when the local application or device > requires it. > — If you can pressure or wait for home gateway vendors for MAP support > and would prefer stateless BRs (probably more scalable/cheaper than > stateful DS-Lite AFTR), use MAP. (One more decision branch between MAP-T > and MAP-E, but they’re pretty close). > > >> - for scenarios in which IPv6 islands are connected across IPv4 space, >> use 6rd (a tunneling design). >>> - for scenarios in which IPv6 systems have to talk with IPv4 systems, >>> translate. Please consider doing so above the IP layer. >>> >>> I would argue that 464XLAT, MAP-E, and MAP-T are "services in which an >>> ISP might use SIIT/NAT64 in its network", and are therefore not >>> fundamental transition technologies as much as ISP services built using >>> them. >>> >>> I think I might also argue that the market has more or less followed >>> that advice. Your spreadsheet seems to suggest that. >> >> The interesting thing is that 6rd, which is a way of appearing to have an >> IPv6 network without actually having one, is not what one might call >> "prevalent". It has in fact been used for *transition*, in places like >> Free - which used to connect IPv6 customers using 6rd and (I understand) >> has recently announced native IPv6 deployment. The places I know that >> have used it used it for a while and then have gone native. >> >> Would you agree with that? > > I would; that is my perception. MHO is that 6rd has had its day, and while > I don’t think it needs to be deprecated, I haven’t heard any scenarios in > the past several years where it solves an actual problem. Apart from giving millions of users IPv6 access? Ole
- [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Lee Howard
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Sander Steffann
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Sander Steffann
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Tim Chown
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Xing Li
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Lee Howard
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Lee Howard
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Sander Steffann
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Lee Howard
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Lee Howard
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Lee Howard
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Toerless Eckert
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Lee Howard
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies nick.heatley
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Kossut Tomasz - Hurt
- Re: [v6ops] discussion of transition technologies Yannis Nikolopoulos