[v6ops] Re: [IPv6]Re: Is the P flag even necessary? M flag already does enough (Re: Re: A detail review of draft-ietf-6man-pio-pflag-04)

Timothy Winters <tim@qacafe.com> Tue, 06 August 2024 13:05 UTC

Return-Path: <tim@qacafe.com>
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2C35C09E1BD for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 6 Aug 2024 06:05:10 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.106
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.106 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=qacafe.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cnZObP1HFnJ2 for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 6 Aug 2024 06:05:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pf1-x42b.google.com (mail-pf1-x42b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88BEFC1F58BD for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Tue, 6 Aug 2024 06:05:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pf1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-70d1cbbeeaeso421764b3a.0 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Tue, 06 Aug 2024 06:05:06 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=qacafe.com; s=google; t=1722949506; x=1723554306; darn=ietf.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=OoHHepsCQi7/5HFtdhM9YZ/81yQxgzKTLoBkYdXaFX4=; b=b7lYzx/8OUzLZy1sd1F0q6mCJ4IZR1ueK+BsEHDu/67fshnwwhh0pncaaPKgfm/PGa cIp2VRDfcvpPizkFZXP+OKySK6Cz0Am9bfDDge9jW61EMIy0Mug5sq4MqzoZRaajH/JV y3I/Jm52f0rz9tMFab3KIUBvFMJCDlYS77SN8=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1722949506; x=1723554306; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=OoHHepsCQi7/5HFtdhM9YZ/81yQxgzKTLoBkYdXaFX4=; b=N+5CIllcsOGXeA8OjCJEgEorFmIgjwFY0Po7iodZTj6QkKiOm1d0mnCRmLFTD9g5eW HAcICcyHSkYiUssjjDiaFiNnl2llIK+T07ddOp4z6H3DBgsmvEpGweltZofZ4FKZOP6u m7iAtT4A6mc5v2ViQw67eNKz80/bbx0+QP6/wl1tA++qvgVK8hfCDB9b1XdPqJ9ae+pp qG4vfJCpYNDqNz+5G3WJECHCxhu7XzcI/bK33YflEo9rNO9V9rHIxtrI4qlgRJb9sz1j FxmyWzZ+UsxXVJXyVD+IQJL7LPE4W+OMKmi/z8XoEWTB98PYQnC9sv5VD3jE/DxsWlWH HH1Q==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwO59zexo01Jv6OhDqUEe+oVyIuFdS8vWTr5IP7K64Otx10I1bV /RM+ZY6/ejoDNUr2nef5wyUQHOjkEVvV0fkWwh56xdw8u2QT7aNXxgz3rbNATjl12kbxva1TMU7 wYM24j7Gk3ymQZ4UEGxlN92f9ShJ7NtouSCHKYGmx5dGXFydWonI=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFGZEXLHxv5Dqge5jJOpLxunzfQh/dPKEtpabUEqWR5ybZZYDcEv+cmrLEpYH/G/9WZ4Ue5lr7DOACB48xlA6Q=
X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:32c2:b0:1fd:6766:6848 with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-1ff57261aa8mr152190575ad.17.1722949505719; Tue, 06 Aug 2024 06:05:05 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAN-Dau1R=oszbFx40a2U+Cnx354vi44Osk4ruuGcGDodzYKo7A@mail.gmail.com> <CAFU7BASyraNzL3htxxGkbeo5akCS-fLeH8_49GFb-fTc4TB0fQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAN-Dau2wNs=6QO6+vHHb0OQj2GV1HRe76BHo4rdomjCFUBES_g@mail.gmail.com> <CAPt1N1=NaGHxwQ29Z_Uk2royyb-Nix21kcY+12JC9=FDHtOQ+A@mail.gmail.com> <CAN-Dau1+WyvDyxXZBEKFVQ=Pjf38-ku_V9WbmLRBuys5v2R3Pg@mail.gmail.com> <CAPt1N1=1bXJrUNvSOe322SdTHGfe-Odw67NSnTE4NY0ZGyqJ8g@mail.gmail.com> <CAN-Dau3WdgCQFurWJjiC-Tr4a5hj25pjOvhNG8O=tne=JwA0eA@mail.gmail.com> <CAPt1N1nKo2b1XyW1-bBvAk9N2DuDkqbury6d+z900P+FxQTzrg@mail.gmail.com> <CAN-Dau2vMX4-6BD-SLQYk-DDj8ia3ySSLwLdMrRAU1canMjJsw@mail.gmail.com> <CAFU7BARVGGCaD-aO2Y+tE0c=JDY0kCjxmfZ-yUeSuR8S554omg@mail.gmail.com> <CAO42Z2w9PcN4ej6_Ly-jLoKcMeWP+-UA00xGHPG9jm2dz4_F2A@mail.gmail.com> <CAPt1N1nmk9+G_QadBV8D=Ty_0sxMFNYxijd+CERr7w8YWhJaxQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAO42Z2wAjamRg4sNnpAF0KBB5SrHgJUxcoy1rXvdrR3SWC3xog@mail.gmail.com> <CAKD1Yr33a9LZ4A0UZsFUMsR-SZ2GfO1q-2Cifts+KsAd_g5ObQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAO42Z2z8S426+G+AbpPDjrLdbmYDsArXaoAFMRuSbx41weWoHw@mail.gmail.com> <DB9PR07MB77717BE049C3B0DA943F19CCD6BE2@DB9PR07MB7771.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <CAPt1N1nNC0HEGOxP3-8-G+wdLxGywCOH-_4W7fodM+0YmtLcRA@mail.gmail.com> <CAJgLMKuwtpSpF2JnR5dYfh6hmo+-LunbJxe7Z6WTTaNh=nAtVw@mail.gmail.com> <CAPt1N1kx79vyHnU-=tfGLrRDgiRiKTu0D1aYdYn_vYTQUMK99w@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAPt1N1kx79vyHnU-=tfGLrRDgiRiKTu0D1aYdYn_vYTQUMK99w@mail.gmail.com>
From: Timothy Winters <tim@qacafe.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2024 09:04:54 -0400
Message-ID: <CAJgLMKtCxh=H+bt7c9F9nn0XhLFDvhvshvu6Jp6CqN3NbK8D-g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000413fbb061f0371ab"
Message-ID-Hash: W7J25A5NZENQISIX2ZMSBVAGNJUMZC3A
X-Message-ID-Hash: W7J25A5NZENQISIX2ZMSBVAGNJUMZC3A
X-MailFrom: tim@qacafe.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-v6ops.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: IPv6 Ops WG <v6ops@ietf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc4
Precedence: list
Subject: [v6ops] Re: [IPv6]Re: Is the P flag even necessary? M flag already does enough (Re: Re: A detail review of draft-ietf-6man-pio-pflag-04)
List-Id: v6ops discussion list <v6ops.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/eZ6cfk_VV1KYOP7lQPyeqY4uNwI>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/v6ops>
List-Help: <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:v6ops-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:v6ops-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:v6ops-leave@ietf.org>

Hi Ted,

On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 2:30 PM Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 11:16 AM Timothy Winters <tim@qacafe.com> wrote:
>
>> v6ops has a draft for PD on the LAN to improve this situation.
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-v6ops-cpe-lan-pd/
>>
>> Please feel free to send comments, we are about to do WGLC on it.
>>
>
> Hey, Tim. I hadn't read the document in a while. I see this text in the
> last requirement:
>
> The IPv6 CE Router SHOULD by default provision IA_PD IA prefixes with a
> prefix-length of 64.
>
> I read this as "if the DHCP client doesn't specify a narrower prefix, the
> CE router SHOULD .. 64"
>
> Is that what you intended? If not, I think you need to say more. If that
> is what you intended, this won't work, because if we stack CE routers, I
> expect every CE router to ask for a /48, rather than not specifying, and
> that would mean that we'd always delegate the narrowest remaining subset of
> the outer CE router's delegation to the first inner router that makes a
> request.
>
That's what the working group wanted.  The original version of this
document had more text about how to support hierarchical or flat models.
After a round or two discussion what came out of that was routers behind a
CE Router are no longer a CE Router as they aren't at the customer edge.
 The draft reflects that general consensus, that leans towards deploying a
flat model as opposed to hierarchical, which is where the /64 length
derives from.

I think it may be time for another document to specify what to do if you're
a Internal Router (but not SNAC).  We could include all the flat model text
for becoming a DHCP Relay and giving out IA_PD with /64 from the customer
edge.

>
>