Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings

If the end-users and enterprises are forced to switch to IPv6 only in their LANs, overnight, who is going to pay for replacing IP cameras, home automation, and many other old devices, that still work, but are IPv4-only?

To make sure, IPv6-only in the WAN is not the same as IPv6-only in the WAN and the customers LANs.

If vendor x or z deploy IPv6-only infrastructure in their corporate network that’s really good and I applaud for it.

If cellular operator a or b deploy IPv6-only cellular access for smartphones, that's wonderful and I applaud it. It is a more controlled scenario and they can tell the app developers (as Apple did), to make sure that the apps are IPv6 capable. However, Android and Windows smartphones in that infrastructure are still using CLAT, right? Or Android/Windows have also done the same as Apple, making sure that all the Apps are IPv6-ready?

Now if instead of a smartphone is a LTE router, or a smartphone doing some kind of network sharing for providing broadband in a home that has no wired connectivity, and it is IPv6-only, how come are going to work those devices that I mention before? Should the user throw them to the trash can? Are the operators going to pay for that, or the user will prefer an operator that provides a broadband LTE router with some kind of “IPv4 as a service” in the LAN even if the WAN is IPv6-only?

Regards,
Jordi

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com>
Responder a: <furry13@gmail.com>
Fecha: lunes, 17 de julio de 2017, 16:00
Para: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
CC: IPv6 Ops WG <v6ops@ietf.org>, Jim Martin <jim@daedelus.com>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
Asunto: Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings

    On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 6:44 PM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
    <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
    > I’m saying:
    >
    > 1) We should not try experiments in the IETF network, it has been the rule for ages.
    > 2) If we decide to change that rule, we should try what is good for the market, not what we “wish”

    Could you pls elaborate on why proving that IPv6-only/NAT64 network
    works (or if it does not, identifying the issues and getting them
    fixed) is not good for the market? If, as you said, nobody is doing
    Ipv6-only (and we have seen a number of comments stating the
    opposite), wouldn't it be good for them if we prove that v6-only works
    and start working on issues? If, as some people have said, there are
    Ipv6-only network out >
    > Turning off IPv4 in the WAN, but keeping some sort of IPv4 connectivity, is feasible. This is what we need to try.

    >
    >
    > -----Mensaje original-----
    > De: Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com>
    > Responder a: <furry13@gmail.com>
    > Fecha: lunes, 17 de julio de 2017, 10:42
    > Para: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
    > CC: IPv6 Ops WG <v6ops@ietf.org>, Jim Martin <jim@daedelus.com>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
    > Asunto: Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings
    >
    >     On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 6:37 PM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
    >     <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
    >     > Tell your bank, your university, your library, etc., to try that.
    >     >
    >     > I now that some networks (mainly related to IETF work, vendors, etc.), are doing that, but not in a general market.
    >
    >     Are you saying IETF should wait until everyone else has done it and
    >     proved it works and only then we feel safe enough to try it? ;)
    >
    >     > -----Mensaje original-----
    >     > De: Jen Linkova <furry13@gmail.com>
    >     > Responder a: <furry13@gmail.com>
    >     > Fecha: lunes, 17 de julio de 2017, 10:34
    >     > Para: Jordi Palet Martinez <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
    >     > CC: IPv6 Ops WG <v6ops@ietf.org>, Jim Martin <jim@daedelus.com>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
    >     > Asunto: Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings
    >     >
    >     >     On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 6:17 PM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
    >     >     <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
    >     >     > In the real world, you will not disable IPv4 in the LANs of end-users or enterprise customers (at least not now, may be in 3-5 years from now).
    >     >
    >     >     I disagree with this statement. There are networks doing this. Right
    >     >     here right now.
    >     >
    >     >     > -----Mensaje original-----
    >     >     > De: v6ops <v6ops-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de "Brzozowski, John" <John_Brzozowski@comcast.com>
    >     >     > Responder a: <John_Brzozowski@comcast.com>
    >     >     > Fecha: lunes, 17 de julio de 2017, 10:14
    >     >     > Para: Noah <noah@neo.co.tz>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
    >     >     > CC: Jim Martin <jim@daedelus.com>, IPv6 Ops WG <v6ops@ietf.org>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>
    >     >     > Asunto: Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings
    >     >     >
    >     >     >     Agree with Noah and Ted.
    >     >     >
    >     >     >     Note the I-D explicitly documents that a fallback, dual stack SSID must remain available as Noah mentions below.
    >     >     >
    >     >     >     I fail to see how doing this will harm or discriminate.
    >     >     >
    >     >     >     We do need to eat our own dogfood, otherwise we are hypocrites.
    >     >     >
    >     >     >     John
    >     >     >
    >     >     >     +1-484-962-0060
    >     >     >
    >     >     >     From:
    >     >     >     v6ops <v6ops-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Noah <noah@neo.co.tz>
    >     >     >     Date: Monday, July 17, 2017 at 09:01
    >     >     >     To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
    >     >     >     Cc: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>, v6ops <v6ops@ietf.org>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Jim Martin <jim@daedelus.com>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>
    >     >     >     Subject: Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings
    >     >     >
    >     >     >
    >     >     >
    >     >     >     FWIW and to cater for all, would a fallback dual stack SSID work for the status quo while this 2nd v6 SSID is also experimented upon which is a great idea considering this is IETF.
    >     >     >
    >     >     >
    >     >     >
    >     >     >     Noah
    >     >     >
    >     >     >
    >     >     >
    >     >     >     On 17 Jul 2017 9:54 a.m., "Ted Lemon" <mellon@fugue.com> wrote:
    >     >     >
    >     >     >     I don't think this is a social justice issue.   Does the IETF think that IPv6 works, or not?   If we think it works, and we have been working for what, 20 years, to make it work, and we have designed all this great
    >     >     >      transition tech, then why on earth would we not want to use it?   This isn't "one draft."   This is roughly half the work of the IETF for the past two decades.
    >     >     >
    >     >     >
    >     >     >     On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 8:51 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
    >     >     >
    >     >     >     So we agree to change the rules so that we use this network for every ID that want to experiment with it? Otherwise we discriminate among different authors …
    >     >     >
    >     >     >     I think is a really bad precedent.
    >     >     >
    >     >     >     Regards,
    >     >     >     Jordi
    >     >     >
    >     >     >
    >     >     >     -----Mensaje original-----
    >     >     >     De: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
    >     >     >     Responder a: <mellon@fugue.com>
    >     >     >     Fecha: lunes, 17 de julio de 2017, 8:48
    >     >     >     Para: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
    >     >     >     CC: IPv6 Ops WG <v6ops@ietf.org>, Jim Martin <jim@daedelus.com>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>, Suresh
    >     >     >      Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>
    >     >     >     Asunto: Re: [v6ops] Incremental Deployment of IPv6-only Wi-Fi for IETF Meetings
    >     >     >
    >     >     >         I don't actually know what the goal of the IETF network is other than to provide connectivity.   Because of the vicissitudes of hotel topology, it is often the case that IETF participants experience issues with the
    >     >     >      network at least once or twice per IETF despite the best efforts (and they are quite exceptional) of the NOC team.   I do not really see what the damage is that you are hoping to protect against here.   Users who don't read the NOC announcement?   No sympathy.
    >     >     >       Sorry.
    >     >     >
    >     >     >
    >     >     >
    >     >     >
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    >     >     --
    >     >     SY, Jen Linkova aka Furry
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    SY, Jen Linkova aka Furry

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IPv4 is over
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This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.