Re: [v6ops] draft-vf-v6ops-ipv6-deployment

Hi Jordi,
Yes, this is exactly my plan.
I will surely use data from the mailing list discussion. I will also try to research public statistics on that, even if, as already noted, it will be very difficult since normally ISPs don't publish this data about their customers.

Regards,

Giuseppe

-----Original Message-----
From: v6ops [mailto:v6ops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2021 11:24 AM
To: v6ops@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [v6ops] draft-vf-v6ops-ipv6-deployment

May be instead of having a "conclusive" description, we should use some of the text and data that we have been exchanging in the last emails?

My inputs are based on real deployment cases. I can't cite specific ones, because customer confidentiality, but also responding to Eduard, yes, there are wireline ISPs that already surpassed 75%. There are both cases where you can apply this % to the total network, and cases where you can apply this % to those customers that already got IPv6 deployed. Again, it depends on the specific ISP strategy (enabling all customers in "n" months, or "overnight" or "in different phases across a multi-year plan").

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet

El 29/3/21 9:53, "v6ops en nombre de Giuseppe Fioccola" <v6ops-bounces@ietf.org en nombre de giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com> escribió:

    Hi,
    Thank you for the inputs about this statement "For this reason, when IPv6 increases to a certain limit, it would be better to switch to the IPv6-only stage."
    I agree that it is not very specific and we should extend the concept in this paragraph.
    We can say that the "limit" can be "when IPv4 traffic is vanishingly small" or "when IPv6 increases to more than 90%", anyway it is difficult to be conclusive since it also depends on several factors.
    As highlighted by Jordi, it should be considered on a case-by-case basis looking at the different strategies of the ISPs and at the different costs involved. 
    We will surely explain and add more considerations on this point in the next revision of the draft.

    Regards,

    Giuseppe

    -----Original Message-----
    From: v6ops [mailto:v6ops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
    Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2021 10:16 PM
    To: v6ops@ietf.org
    Subject: Re: [v6ops] draft-vf-v6ops-ipv6-deployment

        But please consider that if an operator is already supporting its customers using classical dual stack or a solid solution like 6rd, there may be no good reason to change for the next ten years or more. Dual stack has no time limit.

    -> Yes, agree, I was not trying to say that existing IPv6 deployments (with *any* transition mechanism) should move to IPv6-only with IPv4aaS. My sentence was thinking in "if you deploy IPv6 now".

        I think this statement in the draft:
        "For this reason, when IPv6 increases to a certain limit,
        it would be better to switch to the IPv6-only stage."
        is too vague to be useful. Switching costs might be very high, including loss of customers. In fact, the criterion for switching might be as simple as "when IPv4 traffic is vanishingly small."

    -> Agree. I think it is a case-by-case basis. However, it should be considered that certain customers may need "real" dual-stack (example customer hosting dual-stack contents in their own premises), so one of the reasons may be releasing IPv4 addressers where they aren't longer "absolutely" needed, for other "better" usages, or even because the transfer of IPv4 addresses may cover the cost of moving to IPv6-only. Note also that IPv6-only with IPv4aaS has one more advantage for the ISP: you only manage a single stack, which means less opex, and this impacts more as less IPv4 traffic is there, and you don't need to "disable" IPv4, because it is "automatically" disabled. Instead using "real" dual-stack or older transition mechanisms, means that at some point in the future you may want to do a "new" transition to IPv6-only (which has a cost).

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