Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-device-profile last call

<mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> Wed, 11 February 2015 08:51 UTC

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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>
Thread-Topic: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-device-profile last call
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 08:51:50 +0000
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Subject: Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-device-profile last call
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Re-,

I hear the point from Brian. FWIW, this point is mentioned explicitly in the introduction:



   2.  Help Operators with the detailed device requirement list

       preparation (to be exchanged with device suppliers).  This is

       also a contribution to harmonize Operators' requirements towards

       device vendors.



This point was part of the draft since we submitted the first individual submission.



The document was adopted by the WG and passed both the WG and IETF LCs with that scope. I naively assumed that this point is not anymore an issue given that the draft passed major milestones (several WGLCs, IETF LC) and the IETF consensus declared for it means this is not an issue to advance the document.



BTW, any requirement document (CPE requirement RFCs, for example) can be turned into a "procurement specification". It is a matter of presentation not a question of technical foundations. We could opted for a similar format, but we decided to be direct to the point.



The draft is currently presented as a superset of existing RFCs, enriched with features required for IPv4 service continuity, LAN capabilities, etc.

Cheers,
Med

De : Lorenzo Colitti [mailto:lorenzo@google.com]
Envoyé : mercredi 11 février 2015 09:10
À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN
Cc : Heatley, Nick; Fred Baker (fred); draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-device-profile.all@tools.ietf.org; V6 Ops List
Objet : Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-device-profile last call

On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 11:31 PM, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>> wrote:
In case you missed the latest version (see the diff: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-device-profile-15&url2=draft-ietf-v6ops-mobile-device-profile-16)-16), we addressed the changes YOU asked for and also those from James and Barbara (many thanks to them).

What additional changes you would like to see added?

I don't think minor changes to the document would cause me to support it.

I have expressed my concerns about this document in the past. For example, I think the document is too broad (in fact, harmfully broad); places too much focus on what features to support and not enough focus on why; reads like a procurement spec and not a technical document. Pretty much what I said already at IETF last call - https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg81663.html - and what I have been saying since we started discussing this document.

The good news for this document is that it does not need my support to advance - one objection is not sufficient. IIRC the chairs/ADs have stated that they want to see "clear consensus" to support it, and if I were the only one objecting, then I suppose that would be clear consensus. After all, clear consensus does not mean unanimity.

My observation of this thread, however, is that it's not just me objecting. Most clearly, Brian wrote that this reads like a procurement spec and not an IETF document. Gert wrote that he doesn't see a need for this document. James said he shares my general objections. And so on. You can't address that sort of objection with minor edits. And there doesn't seem to be lots of support for this document, either. I see one statement of support from someone who is not an author, and very little else from the rest of the WG.