Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Operational workarounds
Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> Thu, 31 October 2019 19:26 UTC
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To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, v6ops list <v6ops@ietf.org>
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From: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
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Subject: Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Operational workarounds
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Hello, Ted, On 27/10/19 09:02, Ted Lemon wrote: > Indeed, this would also not actually solve the problem. At present, > the ISPs are doing something that is out of spec and causes problems. > If we “fix” this by accommodating what they do, does that help, or > does it just encourage them to continue doing it? Did happy eyeballs encourage broken IPv6 connectivity, or did it actually help IPv6 deployment? > What should be happening on the host with a prefix that’s deprecated > is that TCP connections should be timing out. This doesn’t take > very long. ~9 minutes, IIRC. > And if there is a new prefix being advertised on the > link, that address should have a valid lifetime newer than the old > prefix, meaning that the next TCP connection should come from that > new prefix, not the old one. That's not correct. Neither the Valid Lifetime nor the Preferred Lifetime affect address selection. > I think Fernando’s plan to shorten some timers makes sense, but > shortening the minimum really doesn’t—it just opens up an opportunity > for an easy DoS, since I can now just send out death packets to the > local network and break everything all at once. The reality with ND attacks are (modulo sanity checks on the packets): you enforce FHS, or you don't. > If you Really Really want to be able to have the routers send out RAs > that deprecate the default route, and, as Mark is saying here, to > upgrade millions or perhaps billions of hosts, why not ask for > something that’s a real improvement? Every piece helps. > First of all, fix CPEs so that they definitely support clean > deprecation of prefixes using PD. But robustness cannot rely on any of these specific bits. > Second, fix RA so that it’s > non-repudiable by a device that doesn’t have the secret key. > > SEND does this, sort of. Nobody uses SEND because it tries to solve > a too-big problem and does it using obsolete technology. But the > basic idea is good: include a public key in every RA that can be used > to validate that the RA was signed with the corresponding private > key. What's the practical difference between that, an a network that supports RA-Guard? > When another RA arrives, see if it was signed with the same key. If > so, it came from the same router, and can be trusted to update > whatever information that router sent, including flash-deprecating a > prefix. If not, ignore it. In the non-SEND trust model, you do trust the local router. Why did you trust the local router to configure your network, but not for deprecating the prefix? Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492
- [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Operatio… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Trevor Warwick
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Clark Gaylord
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Richard Patterson
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Kristian McColm
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Timothy Winters
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Timothy Winters
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Timothy Winters
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Radu-Adrian Feurdean
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefix Va… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Naveen Kottapalli
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Radu-Adrian Feurdean
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Sander Steffann
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… sthaug
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… sthaug
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Richard Patterson
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Richard Patterson
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Andrews
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? (Re:… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Tassos Chatzithomaoglou
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Tassos Chatzithomaoglou
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Tassos Chatzithomaoglou
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Richard Patterson
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Tassos Chatzithomaoglou
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Ole Troan