Re: [v6ops] What ie a site? (was: WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-device-02)
Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> Tue, 07 November 2023 19:53 UTC
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From: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com>
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Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2023 11:53:00 -0800
Cc: David Farmer <farmer@umn.edu>, V6 Ops List <v6ops@ietf.org>
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To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [v6ops] What ie a site? (was: WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-device-02)
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> On Nov 6, 2023, at 17:40, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote: > > On 07-Nov-23 10:59, Delong.com wrote: >>> On Nov 5, 2023, at 14:57, David Farmer <farmer=40umn.edu@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >>> >>> I contend a site is a physical location within an organization's network. It's not an organization's entire network, as some seem to be claiming. >> We struggled for quite a while with the definition of an “end site” for IPv6 addressing purposes at ARIN. >> I believe what we finally settled on was something to the effect of “A single building or structure or a single tenant within a multi-tenant building or structure”. >> So yes, that definition (deliberately) means that ARIN policy would allow a university to give a /48 to every dorm room occupant In their dormitories. >> We wanted to make sure that the policy did not unintentionally limit potential use cases and figured we could trust operators to do relatively sane things given the flexibility to do so. >>> Let's look at a medium-sized enterprise with 13 locations, in this first case, served by 13 different providers. In this case, each provider could assign a /48 to each of the organization's locations and still be within RIR policy. The organization would then have 13 separate /48 PA allocations. >> Yes. >>> If this organization, instead, purchased all 13 locations from a single provider, why should it be limited to a single /48? Furthermore, if this organization qualified and wanted to go to its RIR for a direct allocation, why should it be limited to a single /48 allocation? >> It should not… Indeed, it should, ideally get the same thing from the provider that it would receive if it approached ARIN as an end user — a /40. (If you had 12 locations, you’d get a /44, but ARIN allows for a minimum 25% free space in the nibble before you round up to the next nibble. >>> This is an issue of RIR policy and should not be a direct consideration of the IPv6 architecture. However, the argument has been raised as an objection to this draft that an organization can only get a single /48 from RIPE. This is bad policy on RIPE's part and not a valid reason to keep this Draft from moving forward. >> I don’t believe that is actually RIPE's policy. My recollection is that organizations with multiple sites can get a minimum of /48 for each site from RIPE via their sponsoring LIR. RIPE is obnoxious about direct allocations to end users. >>> IPv6 addressing policy does need to consider conservation, but arbitrarily limiting organization to a single /48 isn't conservation. >> Agreed. > > So do you have an answer to my implied question for Jordi: How would we handle 10 million BGP entries instead of 200,000? Until we have the answer, ARIN's policy seems misguided and RIPE's seems correct. > > Brian Most likely, more FIB memory and faster RPs. However, that doesn’t seem like a realistic scenario given how long ARIN’s policy for PI has been running without anywhere near that level of growth in PI prefixes. Owen
- [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-device… Xipengxiao
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Joel Halpern
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Pascal Thubert
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Nick Buraglio
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Pascal Thubert
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Pascal Thubert
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Paolo Nero
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Ole Trøan
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Paolo Nero
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Paolo Nero
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Joel Halpern
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Pascal Thubert
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Pascal Thubert
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Nick Buraglio
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Erik Kline
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Martin Huněk
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Martin Huněk
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Martin Huněk
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Martin Huněk
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Martin Huněk
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Nick Buraglio
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Pascal Thubert
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Martin Huněk
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Pascal Thubert
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Martin Huněk
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Martin Huněk
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] What ie a site? (was: WGLC: draft-iet… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Martin Huněk
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Nick Buraglio
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] WGLC: draft-ietf-v6ops-dhcp-pd-per-de… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] What ie a site? (was: WGLC: draft-iet… jordi.palet@consulintel.es
- [v6ops] What ie a site? (was: WGLC: draft-ietf-v6… David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] What ie a site? (was: WGLC: draft-iet… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] What ie a site? (was: WGLC: draft-iet… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] What ie a site? (was: WGLC: draft-iet… Delong.com
- Re: [v6ops] What ie a site? (was: WGLC: draft-iet… jordi.palet@consulintel.es
- Re: [v6ops] What ie a site? (was: WGLC: draft-iet… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] What ie a site? Havard Eidnes
- Re: [v6ops] What ie a site? (was: WGLC: draft-iet… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] What ie a site? (was: WGLC: draft-iet… David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] What ie a site? (was: WGLC: draft-iet… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] What ie a site? (was: WGLC: draft-iet… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] What ie a site? (was: WGLC: draft-iet… owen@Delong.com
- Re: [v6ops] What ie a site? (was: WGLC: draft-iet… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] What ie a site? (was: WGLC: draft-iet… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] What ie a site? (was: WGLC: draft-iet… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] What ie a site? (was: WGLC: draft-iet… Vasilenko Eduard