Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yourtchenko-ra-dhcpv6-comparison-00.txt (fwd)
"Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com> Thu, 05 December 2013 13:35 UTC
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From: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
To: Alexandru Petrescu <alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yourtchenko-ra-dhcpv6-comparison-00.txt (fwd)
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Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2013 13:34:53 +0000
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Cc: "v6ops@ietf.org" <v6ops@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yourtchenko-ra-dhcpv6-comparison-00.txt (fwd)
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This is an issue to clarify in this document (it may already be clear, but that was one area I need to confirm in a reread) - it old compares address assignment mechanisms, not prefix delegation. There's no alternative for prefix delegation, so nothing to compare with. The routing issues for PD are a bit different than for addresses. - Bernie (from iPad) > On Dec 5, 2013, at 8:15 AM, "Alexandru Petrescu" <alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > Thanks for the draft. IMHO it goes in a good direction to compare what > can be done with DHCPv6 vs RA. > > I have some comments. > >> DHCPv6 needs at least 2 packets. RA is just one packet. > > This varies. It is mainly yes. > > But, an initial exchange is at minimum 4 DHCPv6 messages (including a > costly discovery), whereas a DAD-less operation would be a single RA > message (forgetting the initial MLD 'join'). > >> There is one additional reason for the DHCPv6 to be slower. > > One of the reasons DHCPv4/v6 may be slower lies in the discovery phase. > Every discovery phase takes some time. Old DHCPv4 implementations take > too much time, as do old WiFi 'scanning' operations (another discovery). > > Better implementations of the discovery phases take shorter time, yet > they are extremely lengthy compared to what agreed numbers and multicast > join/leave operations can achieve. > >> An RA-based protocol interaction may influence host's routing. A >> DHCPv6-based interaction today can not influence the host's routing >> - it was specifically denied any and all involvement into routing. > [...] >> FIXME: This section needs further debates, clarifications, and a >> rewrite. Discussion welcome. > > There is an ongoing discussion in the DHC WG about this. Namely about > routing at DHCP Relay during Prefix Delegation. Implementations > consider seriously 'snooping' and adding routing table entries at Relay > during DHCP operations. Standards e.g. BBF require a solution to this > problem. > > There were several drafts and presentations during recent 2-3 years. > Most recent draft is at > draft-petrescu-relay-route-pd-problem-00.txt > >> Regarding RA for routing and DHCP for addressing, what people care >> about is connectivity. What I need as an operator is a protocol >> (preferably a single protocol because that is simpler) which will >> enable my boxes to gain the connectivity they need. Whether you >> call this routing or providing a default gateway, I don't much mind. >> Look, there's too much ideology going on here. The IETF is being >> dazzled by the sight of multiple lan segments and multiple egress >> gateways without realising that these are the minority >> configuration. All this effort is going into optimising ipv6 address >> / lan autoconfiguration for these unusual scenarios without heeding >> the sober reality that most people, service providers and enterprises >> are only ever going to want to have a single defgw per lan segment, >> and that by far the most common deployment scenario will be a single >> lan segment per organisation. >> >> Wireless? My smartphone already has two radios and a physical >> interface, connected to multiple providers. How exactly do you then >> configure a "single defgw per lan segment" (without draft-troan- >> homenet-sadr-01) >> >> I'm aware that this viewpoint will be regarded as retrograde, and >> that a bunch of people on this list will probably sit there, rolling >> their eyes and thinking: "yeah, and 640k was enough for everyone". >> Just bear in mind that added complexity is not necessarily a good >> thing. The support costs are high and the return on effort is >> dubious at best. IOW, the IETF is optimising a corner case. > > This and later paragraphs read as a story I can understand but it would > need reformulation to become less personal. > > Then... > > In the past we strived to build a table comparing the parameters which > RA configures vs. the parameters which DHCP configures. The value was > in finding which parameters are the exclusive domain of one or the other > in current RFCs. > > For example, Prefix Delegation is only specified for DHCPv6 (not for > RA), whereas the MTU parameter, and default router parameters (IP > address, MAC address) are only for the RA (not for DHCP). > > Alex > > Le 27/11/2013 14:06, Andrew Yourtchenko a écrit : >> Hello all, >> >> Finally I managed to comb a little bit and finally submit the doc >> that aims to compare RAs with DHCPv6 which emerged from the >> discussion on this list a few weeks ago. >> >> I'll be very happy to hear any comments, suggestions, flames, etc. >> >> --a >> >> >> p.s. The "realtime changes" repository is at: >> https://github.com/ayourtch/ra-dhcpv6, in case you want to send the >> feedback via a pull request :) >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 >> 04:52:14 -0800 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Andrew Yourtchenko >> <ayourtch@cisco.com> Subject: New Version Notification for >> draft-yourtchenko-ra-dhcpv6-comparison-00.txt >> >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-yourtchenko-ra-dhcpv6-comparison-00.txt >> has been successfully submitted by Andrew Yourtchenko and posted to >> the IETF repository. >> >> Filename: draft-yourtchenko-ra-dhcpv6-comparison Revision: >> 00 Title: A comparison between the DHCPv6 and RA based host >> configuration Creation date: 2013-11-27 Group: Individual >> Submission Number of pages: 12 URL: >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-yourtchenko-ra-dhcpv6-comparison-00.txt >> >> >> Status: >> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yourtchenko-ra-dhcpv6-comparison > Htmlized: >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-yourtchenko-ra-dhcpv6-comparison-00 >> >> >> Abstract: This document attempts to make a balanced comparison >> between the RA- based and DHCPv6-based host configuration mechanisms. >> It compares the two on different aspects, e.g: underlying media >> assumptions, coordination, locality, etc. and highlights the strong >> and weak sides of both protocols for each scenario. >> >> >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at >> tools.ietf.org. >> >> The IETF Secretariat _______________________________________________ >> v6ops mailing list v6ops@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops > > > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops
- [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yourtc… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Liubing (Leo)
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… 神明達哉
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Ray Hunter
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Andrew Yourtchenko
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… sthaug
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Matthew Petach
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Ray Hunter
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Randy Bush
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Randy Bush
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Randy Bush
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Jared Mauch
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… joel jaeggli
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… sthaug
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Matthew Petach
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Mark Andrews
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Matthew Petach
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Matthew Petach
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Mark Andrews
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Randy Bush
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Lorenzo Colitti
- [v6ops] Enterprises won't deploy IPv6 for IPv6's … Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Enterprises won't deploy IPv6 for IPv… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Enterprises won't deploy IPv6 for IPv… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] Enterprises won't deploy IPv6 for IPv… Tim Chown
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Tim Chown
- Re: [v6ops] Enterprises won't deploy IPv6 for IPv… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] Enterprises won't deploy IPv6 for IPv… Tim Chown
- Re: [v6ops] Enterprises won't deploy IPv6 for IPv… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] Enterprises won't deploy IPv6 for IPv… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] Enterprises won't deploy IPv6 for IPv… joel jaeggli
- Re: [v6ops] Enterprises won't deploy IPv6 for IPv… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] Enterprises won't deploy IPv6 for IPv… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Enterprises won't deploy IPv6 for IPv… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] Enterprises won't deploy IPv6 for IPv… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Enterprises won't deploy IPv6 for IPv… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] Enterprises won't deploy IPv6 for IPv… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Enterprises won't deploy IPv6 for IPv… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Matthew Petach
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Enterprises won't deploy IPv6 for IPv… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] New Version Notification for draft-yo… Nick Hilliard