Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefix Valid Lifetime is going to be X" (Re: SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Operational workarounds)
Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> Tue, 12 November 2019 00:13 UTC
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To: Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>, Richard Patterson <richard@helix.net.nz>
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From: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
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Subject: Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefix Valid Lifetime is going to be X" (Re: SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Operational workarounds)
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On 11/11/19 18:25, Ole Troan wrote: >> On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 at 17:11, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote: >> Nobody is expecting you to never renumber. Well, at least I am not. What I am talking about here is deliberate, opportunistic renumbering. If your topology changes and you have to renumber, so be it. If you can avoid that it’s better, and if you can give notice it’s also better. If you can do it gracefully with temporary routes, even better. But you shouldn’t be renumbering just ‘cuz. >> >> In that case I think we agree, an operator shouldn't intentionally renumber "just 'cuz". However the scenarios I mentioned are far from the Operator going out of their way to not support stable prefixes. The question is just around how stable they are, and once you start having to ask that question, then shouldn't we be looking at ways to mitigate the impact to an end-user? > > I agree with you, we should look at ways to mitigate the impact for the end-user. > Can we find a way that do that without relegating IPv6 end-users to be clients and consumers only, like they are on the NATed IPv4 Internet? > > Would you join in effort to try to define how that would look like and what the gaps are? > The big question: > "What would it take to make a network with ephemeral addressing work (work as in not limit the user to only run "client only" applications)?" + IPv6 UPnP support for punching holes in the fw (a big fail for many CPEs) + Resilience to renumbering (slaac-renum) + Dynamic DNS updates In the IPv4 world, assuming no CGNAT, this works just fine: + there's IPv4 UPnP suport + renumbering is masqueraded by NATs + You do dynamic DNS updates with small TTLs P.S.: Since nobody guarantees there will be no fw and not renumbering, you have to accommodate for them, or plan to fail. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont SI6 Networks e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492
- [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Operatio… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Trevor Warwick
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Clark Gaylord
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Richard Patterson
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Kristian McColm
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Timothy Winters
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Timothy Winters
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Timothy Winters
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Radu-Adrian Feurdean
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefix Va… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Naveen Kottapalli
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Radu-Adrian Feurdean
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Sander Steffann
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… sthaug
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… sthaug
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Richard Patterson
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Richard Patterson
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Andrews
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? (Re:… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Tassos Chatzithomaoglou
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Tassos Chatzithomaoglou
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Tassos Chatzithomaoglou
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Richard Patterson
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Tassos Chatzithomaoglou
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Ole Troan