Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Operational workarounds
Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> Fri, 01 November 2019 06:49 UTC
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From: Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2019 17:49:17 +1100
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To: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
Cc: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, v6ops list <v6ops@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Operational workarounds
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On Fri, 1 Nov 2019, 14:31 Fernando Gont, <fgont@si6networks.com> wrote: > On 31/10/19 21:20, Mark Smith wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, 1 Nov 2019, 06:34 Ted Lemon, <mellon@fugue.com > > <mailto:mellon@fugue.com>> wrote: > > > > On Oct 31, 2019, at 3:21 PM, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com > > <mailto:fgont@si6networks.com>> wrote: > >> On 27/10/19 09:02, Ted Lemon wrote: > >>> Indeed, this would also not actually solve the problem. At > present, > >>> the ISPs are doing something that is out of spec and causes > problems. > >>> If we “fix” this by accommodating what they do, does that help, or > >>> does it just encourage them to continue doing it? > >> > >> Did happy eyeballs encourage broken IPv6 connectivity, or did it > >> actually help IPv6 deployment? > > > > Don’t get me wrong—I’m not saying we shouldn’t do things to improve > > the situation. I am saying that we should be strategic about it. > > > >>> What should be happening on the host with a prefix that’s > deprecated > >>> is that TCP connections should be timing out. This doesn’t take > >>> very long. > >> > >> ~9 minutes, IIRC. > > > > Should be 90 seconds. > > > > > > You've got no more than 10 seconds unless you want end users to actively > > try to do something to recover, which can include calling their ISP's > > helpdesk. > > I'd argue the opposite.. I wouldn't argue with research from 1968, referenced in an article from 1993, by an expert in usability, cited in my slides. Response Times: The 3 Important Limits https://www.nngroup.com/articles/response-times-3-important-limits/ But, anyway, for the most part the user timeout > is not under the control of the user. > I don't understand this. It not being in control of the user is the point of knowing UX/HCI factors so the good default response times can be chosen. TCP's default timeouts are way too large for a good end user experience. I don't know what criteria were used to select them, but it certainly wasn't human usability factors. > > -- > Fernando Gont > SI6 Networks > e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com > PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 > > > > >
- [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Operatio… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Trevor Warwick
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Clark Gaylord
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Richard Patterson
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Kristian McColm
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Timothy Winters
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Timothy Winters
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Timothy Winters
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Radu-Adrian Feurdean
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefix Va… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Naveen Kottapalli
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Radu-Adrian Feurdean
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Sander Steffann
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… sthaug
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… sthaug
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] SLAAC renum: Problem Statement & Oper… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Richard Patterson
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Richard Patterson
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Mark Andrews
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Fernando Gont
- [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? (Re:… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] A broken promise - "You said PD Prefi… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Tassos Chatzithomaoglou
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Tassos Chatzithomaoglou
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Tassos Chatzithomaoglou
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Richard Patterson
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Tassos Chatzithomaoglou
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] What problem are we trying to solve? … Ole Troan