[v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6mops
Nick Buraglio <buraglio@forwardingplane.net> Mon, 12 August 2024 14:23 UTC
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From: Nick Buraglio <buraglio@forwardingplane.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 09:22:58 -0500
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To: "jordi.palet@consulintel.es" <jordi.palet=40consulintel.es@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6mops
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On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at 3:41 AM jordi.palet@consulintel.es <jordi.palet= 40consulintel.es@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > While I agree that IPv6-only and IPv6-mostly are different things, I > disagree that “IPv6-only” is widely understood as “no IPv4”. > In the context I work in it is fairly well understood to mean no IPv4, but I believe you are correct - I was never able to get a satisfactory and definitive definition of what that means. In my opinion (no hat), operationally, this is an important detail. I would welcome a definition of this and as I have expressed in the past, I believe we should take this on as a WG. > As explained in > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-palet-v6ops-ipv6-only/ > > The problem comes because “IPv6-only” needs a context to be correctly > defined. > > Should I revive that document and include IPv6-mostly definition there? > > Saludos, > Jordi > > @jordipalet > > > El 8 ago 2024, a las 18:21, Nick Buraglio <buraglio@forwardingplane.net> > escribió: > > *No hat* > > On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 6:47 AM Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> > wrote: > > > No. Declaring the “IPv6-Only” network does not preclude that the network > can support IPv4 communication. > > > From the perspective of an operator migrating off of IPv6 and onto > > IPv6 exclusively, I strongly disagree. Either by policy or by > technical limitation (configured or inherent), "IPv6-only" is widely > understood to mean "no IPv4". > > > The IPv4 communication can still be transmitted via the tunnel technology, > that is “IPv4 Communication as a IPv6 service” > > > I think that is out of scope. Whatever is inside the tunnel - and > thereby "invisible" to the network substrate is irrelevant. The tunnel > would still be required to operate over IPv6. > > > > > Comparing with evolution of mobile technologies, there is no operator > declare their network is “4G-mostly network” when they want to put forward > to the 4G phase, but need still support the 3G host/endpoint. > > > Again, I think this is orthogonal. That is a lower layer. If I ran a > network that was 70% Ethernet and 30% SONET I wouldn't call it > "Ethernet only", either. I would describe it as "mostly ethernet". > > > > > Introducing the “IPv6-Mostly Network” concept, in my POV, is worse than > the “Dual Stack”, and it will also mask some hinder problems that can’t be > emerged at the dual-stack phase. > > > As someone that has been working on these migrations to IPv6-only for > several years, I can assure you it is not the same as dual-stack. It > is a welcomed transition strategy that has a visible end site with an > operator incentive to continue the migration, whereas with dual-stack > there was no real incentive to move past it. > > > > > When the operators declare clearly they are toward to the “IPv6-Only > Network”, they can certainly accelerate the conversion of IPv6-only > application, and also the gradual removal of the outdated hosts. But, > introduce the concept of “IPv6-Mostly Network”, can give the transition > more time to take action-----Similar with the effect of “Dual Stack”. > > > See above. Dual-stack was a necessary step, and one that the server > and service side probably still needs. 6mostly is the next phase for > the *access* networks. > > > > > > > Best Regards > > > > Aijun Wang > > China Telecom > > > > > > > > 发件人: Tim Chown [mailto:Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk] > 发送时间: 2024年8月8日 18:55 > 收件人: Brian Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>; Aijun Wang < > wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> > 抄送: Ron Bonica <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>; IPv6 Ops WG < > v6ops@ietf.org> > 主题: Re: [v6ops] Re: 答复: Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6mops > > > > Indeed, it’s a very nice way to get on the path to removing IPv4 and a > nice term for that process; the “most” referring to the property that most > hosts on a subnet switch to IPv6-only, while those not capable continue to > use IPv4 for some or all operation. > > > > Tim > > > > From: Brian Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> > Date: Thursday, 8 August 2024 at 11:51 > To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> > Cc: Ron Bonica <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, IPv6 Ops WG < > v6ops@ietf.org> > Subject: [v6ops] Re: 答复: Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6mops > > Aijun, > > > > I disagree. When talking to site operators who want to proceed towards > IPv6 infastructure but have vital systems that cannot be updated from IPv4 > immediately, the new term "IPv6 mostly" is exactly what they want to hear. > Many sites are in that situation but would like to avoid dual stack on the > wire. > > > > (via tiny screen & keyboard) > Regards, > Brian Carpenter > > > > On Thu, 8 Aug 2024, 22:33 Aijun Wang, <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> wrote: > > Hi, > > It seems that the newly assigned name "IPv6-Mostly network" may lead > confusion or need more explanations to the customers. > How about change the document name solely to "Deployment and Operations > Consideration on IPv6-Only Network", and omit the introduction of new > concept of "IPv6-Mostly network"? > > And, for the operator transit to IPv6-Only network, besides the C2S(client > to server) communication, the C2C(client to client) communication > requirement should also need to be addressed. It seems the document is lack > of consideration for such part. > > > Best Regards > > Aijun Wang > China Telecom > > -----邮件原件----- > 发件人: forwardingalgorithm@ietf.org [mailto:forwardingalgorithm@ietf.org] > 代表 Jen Linkova > 发送时间: 2024年8月5日 22:22 > 收件人: Ron Bonica <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org> > 抄送: v6ops@ietf.org > 主题: [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6mops > > The draft can be found at > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-link-v6ops-6mops/ > > On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 11:21 PM Ron Bonica <rbonica= > 40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > > Friends, > > This message begins a Call For Adoption for draft-link-v6ops-6mops. Please > read the draft and send your comments in response to this email. > > The call for adoption will close on August 19, 2024. > > Ron > > > > Juniper Business Use Only > > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list -- v6ops@ietf.org > To unsubscribe send an email to v6ops-leave@ietf.org > > > > > -- > Cheers, Jen Linkova > > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list -- v6ops@ietf.org > To unsubscribe send an email to v6ops-leave@ietf.org > > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list -- v6ops@ietf.org > To unsubscribe send an email to v6ops-leave@ietf.org > > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list -- v6ops@ietf.org > To unsubscribe send an email to v6ops-leave@ietf.org > > > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list -- v6ops@ietf.org > To unsubscribe send an email to v6ops-leave@ietf.org > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or > confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of > the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly > prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the > intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or > use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including > attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal > offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this > communication and delete it. > > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list -- v6ops@ietf.org > To unsubscribe send an email to v6ops-leave@ietf.org >
- [v6ops] Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6mops Ron Bonica
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… Jen Linkova
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… Vasilenko Eduard
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… Xipengxiao
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… Mark Smith
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… Paolo Volpato
- [v6ops] 答复: Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6o… Aijun Wang
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… Kawashima Masanobu(川島 正伸)
- [v6ops] Re: 答复: Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link… Brian Carpenter
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… Brian E Carpenter
- [v6ops] Re: 答复: Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link… Tim Chown
- [v6ops] 答复: Re: 答复: Re: Call For Adoption: draft-… Aijun Wang
- [v6ops] Re: 答复: Re: 答复: Re: Call For Adoption: dr… Vasilenko Eduard
- [v6ops] Re: 答复: Re: 答复: Re: Call For Adoption: dr… Nick Buraglio
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… Jen Linkova
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… Chongfeng Xie
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… tom petch
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… jordi.palet@consulintel.es
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… Nick Buraglio
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… Jen Linkova
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… jordi.palet@consulintel.es
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… Jen Linkova
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… jordi.palet@consulintel.es
- [v6ops] Re: 答复: Re: 答复: Re: Call For Adoption: dr… Jen Linkova
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… Brian E Carpenter
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… Tim Chown
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… Costello, Tom
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… Gyan Mishra
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… Tommy Jensen
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… Jeremy Duncan
- [v6ops] Re: Call For Adoption: draft-link-v6ops-6… Nick Buraglio