Re: [v6ops] draft-vf-v6ops-ipv6-deployment

[Alexandre Petrescu <[e-mail]>]

To be more concrete.

There are two IPv6 logos at the bottom of that page: "IPv6 Forum" and 
"IPv6 validated by ipv6-test.com".

However, my IPv6 experiments from an IPv6--only computer does not see 
the page:

http://218.2.231.237:5001/cgi-bin/generate
https://[64:ff9b::da02:e7ed]:5001/cgi-bin/generate

So maybe there is a need need to update the criteria of the IPv6 Forum 
and of the ipv6-test.com.  Or update that web page simply to remove the 
two logos.

Furthermore, browsing the ipv6-test.com website from an IPv6-only 
computer is strange too.  If one tries to browse it from an IPv6-only 
computer, then one can see what I mean.  It says I have a score of 10 
out of 20, and recommends to install IPv4 to reach a higher score of 20.

That is a very strange recommendation in my oppinion.

On the contrary, if one would like IPv6 to succeed more quiuckly, then 
one would construct a website ipv6-test.com which recommends to turn off 
IPv4.

But I would not qualify these days an IPv6-only computer to be a score 
10/20.  It's really not possible.

Alex




Le 24/03/2021 à 17:03, Alexandre Petrescu a écrit :
> Le 24/03/2021 à 16:14, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ a écrit :
>> If you want to be able to connect to IPv4-only services in Internet,
>>  you really need 464XLAT. NAT64+DNS64 will break for you with any app
>>  using literals, etc.
> 
> I can agree.
> 
> Basically the experiment is: whenever someone invites me to click on
> some link, and if I have enough time, I first turn off IPv4 and then I
> click.
> 
> In the future Internet there would be no IPv4 to try, no DNSv4, no
> NAT64, etc.  The future Internet of a sort.
> 
> Since I started these experiments a few years ago, as time goes by, more
> and more URLs work ok on IPv6 and browsed from IPv6-only computers.
> 
> There are still some important issues with security and IPv6 at sites
> that are known to be good for IPv6 (e.g. Google is known to be good with
> IPv6, but some security checking comes to mind; and it is not the only
> one, Cloud logins also comes to mind as not working ok on IPv6 even
> though their dataspace is ok on IPv6).
> 
> There are other issues as well.  I am not trying only the HTTPS URLs but
> also other new services that appear very often, or the old mail servers
> like smtp.gmail.com STARTTLS.
> 
> There are many things to be learned about IPv6 deployment during all
> these experiments of turning off IPv4.
> 
> Alex
> 
>>
>> Regards, Jordi @jordipalet
>>
>>
>>
>> El 24/3/21 16:13, "v6ops en nombre de Alexandre Petrescu" 
>> <[e-mail] en nombre de [e-mail]> 
>> escribió:
>>
>>
>>
>> Le 24/03/2021 à 15:48, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ a écrit :
>>> I think you need to read the NAT64 and related RFCs ...
>>>
>>> If your ISP doesn't offer the NAT64, then it is really bad to use 
>>> IPv6-only in your network.
>>
>> ?
>>
>> No no, I live well in the IPv6 world without NAT64... I dont 
>> understand why NAT64 is so required?
>>
>>> I may understand that you do that as an experiment, but then you can 
>>> setup your own NAT64, it is really simple in any Linux or even
>>>  an OpenWRT CPE.
>>
>> I dont want to set up new boxes at home.  It is indeed possible, but
>>  at this time I do not want.
>>
>>> You may also setup a DNS64 and I will suggest also to setup a
>>> CLAT, all that can be done via VMs, even a single VM in your own 
>>> network.
>>
>> YEs, that is possible too.
>>
>> But can I do without it please?
>>
>> Does IPv6 mandate the use of DNS64 and NAT64?
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>>
>>> Regards, Jordi @jordipalet
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> El 24/3/21 15:33, "v6ops en nombre de Alexandre Petrescu" 
>>> <[e-mail] en nombre de [e-mail]> 
>>> escribió:
>>>
>>> Hi, Gabor,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the reply.  Allow me to continue this discussion.
>>>
>>> Le 24/03/2021 à 13:11, Gabor LENCSE a écrit :
>>>> Dear Alex,
>>>>
>>>> I meant that you need to do the address synthesis manually. I 
>>>> intended the 64:ff9b::/96 WKP only as an example.
>>>
>>> As a side note,  I think that 64:ff9b::/96 prefix might need a 32bit 
>>> IID, which is probably forbidden by the IPv6 Addressing Architecture 
>>> RFC 4291 ("For all unicast addresses, except those that start with 
>>> the binary value 000, Interface IDs are required to
>>> be 64 bits long").
>>>
>>> This is not to say that I disagree with the 64:: prefix, but maybe 
>>> point to what appears to me to be a slight incoherency.
>>>
>>>> First, you need to find out the NAT64 prefix used by your ISP. (RFC 
>>>> 7050 describes the process.)
>>>
>>> I wanted to ask: do you mean the NAT64 prefix that my ISP uses, or 
>>> the ISP that the data provider (the URL in question) uses?
>>>
>>> I am saying this because I think my ISP does not provide NAT64 
>>> service to home.  It is probably an optional feature.
>>>
>>>> Then, you can synthesize and use the proper IPv4-Embedded IPv6 
>>>> Address. (I hope that the IPv6 routing will find the NAT64 gateway 
>>>> based on the NAT64 prefix.)
>>>>
>>>> Of course, it is just a hack, DNS64 makes our life easier, if
>>>> the IPv4 only server is registered in the DNS system. And,
>>>> naturally, the real solution is that the server should have an
>>>> IPv6 address. :-)
>>>
>>> Yes, I agree with it too.
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Gábor
>>>>
>>>> On 3/24/2021 10:59 AM, Alexandre Petrescu wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 24/03/2021 à 09:39, Gabor LENCSE a écrit :
>>>>>> Of course, it is better to use DNS,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> but if you have only an IPv4 literal AND you know the NAT64 prefix 
>>>>>> used in your network, then you can synthesize the
>>>>>> (RFC 6052) IPv4-embedded IPv6 address manually. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For that to work there is a need to implement some conversion in a 
>>>>> network box (NAT64?  464XLAT?) _and_ in the client.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The URL would look like:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://[64:ff9b::218.2.231.237]:5001/cgi-bin/generate
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks for the converted URL.
>>>>>
>>>>> I clicked on it in my Mail User Agent (MUA) client Thunderbird
>>>>>  on an IPv6-only PC and it quickly complains about something that 
>>>>> might relate to security.  It complains about it very quickly, 
>>>>> there is no circling pointing to wait for response of discoverying 
>>>>> some server in the infra, or waiting reply from a site.
>>>>>
>>>>> It says: "The link text indicates 'A' but it leads to 'A'" where A 
>>>>> is the hex text with ":" everywhere converted from the
>>>>>  hex you provided above containing 4 dots.  Remark A is the
>>>>> same as A, and the error reporting is wrong.  That is a client
>>>>>  problem that deserves correction (a bug).
>>>>>
>>>>> But it is a larger client problem too in that clients on PCs dont 
>>>>> have that support for '64::' addresses.  Smartphones might
>>>>> have that support.  I am not sure it is good to consider that
>>>>> lack of implementation of "64::" addresses in clients to be a
>>>>> bug.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Alex
>>>>>
>>>>> PS: for firefox: when I copy paste that URL 
>>>>> https://[64:ff9b::218.2.231.237]:5001/cgi-bin/generate on my 
>>>>> address bar of web browser firefox on my IPv6-only PC it tries
>>>>>  to connect to something, waitslike 10 seconds, and then
>>>>> firefox reports 'The wait delay has been reached' (translated)
>>>>> and stops waiting.  Firefox is also affected by this problem
>>>>> in protocols.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hopefully, your ISP uses a Network-Specific Prefix, and not the 
>>>>>> NAT64 Well-Known Prefix.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gábor
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/24/2021 9:02 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
>>>>>>> It will be much better to use DNS, not literals!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You probably don't see that from an IPv6-only network because it 
>>>>>>> is a literal (if you have NAT64+DNS64 it will work with DNS, if 
>>>>>>> you have 464XLAT it will also work with a
>>>>>>> literal IPv4).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> El 24/3/21 8:53, "v6ops en nombre de Alexandre Petrescu" 
>>>>>>> <[e-mail] en nombre de 
>>>>>>> [e-mail]> escribió:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Le 24/03/2021 à 04:14, hsyu a écrit :
>>>>>>>> Dear Paolo and  Alexandre，
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you very much for your interest in this website. This is a 
>>>>>>>> test website, and the current data still
>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>>> further confirmation. Therefore, I will post it after the
>>>>>>> data is corrected.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for the reply.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The data on the website might be correct already.  I can see it 
>>>>>>> on an IPv4 connection.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the access to that data should be on IPv6 too, not
>>>>>>> only on IPv4.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ideally, one should add an IPv6 address to the computer's 
>>>>>>> interface. Then the URL would be something like 
>>>>>>> https://[2001:db8:1::1]:5001/cgi-bin/generate (attention that is 
>>>>>>> an IPv6 address for documentation, do not put that particular 
>>>>>>> address on the interface)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Haisheng Yu(Johnson) [e-mail]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://maas.mail.163.com/dashi-web-extend/html/proSignature.html?ftlId=1&name=Haisheng+Yu%28Johnson%29&uid=hsyu%40cfiec.net&iconUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fmail-online.nosdn.127.net%2Fsm50a1433bca9fb284d4265d35e9ed54d3.jpg&items=%5B%22%22%2C%22hsyu%40cfiec.net%22%2C%22%22%2C%22%22%2C%22%22%5D> 
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> 签名由 网易邮箱大师
>>>>>>> <https://mail.163.com/dashi/dlpro.html?from=mail81>
>>>>>>>> 定制 On 3/24/2021 02:14，Alexandre
>>>>>>> Petrescu<[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]> wrote：
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you for the link in China about IPv6 deployment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But I can not see it :-(
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When I copy paste that link
>>>>>>> (http://218.2.231.237:5001/cgi-bin/generate)
>>>>>>>> in my web browser  it responds that the connection has
>>>>>>> failed.  I use an
>>>>>>>> IPv6-only computer (Windows with IPv4 unchecked in the
>>>>>>> interface
>>>>>>>> Properties).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ideally, one would put data about IPv6 on a server that
>>>>>>> is also capable
>>>>>>>> of doing IPv6.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe one can put an IPv6 address on the server
>>>>>>> 218.2.231.237?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Le 23/03/2021 à 07:21, hsyu a écrit :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Paolo, I can also provide some data on the
>>>>>>> deployment of IPv6 in
>>>>>>>> China. http://218.2.231.237:5001/cgi-bin/generate
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best regards.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Haisheng Yu(Johnson) [e-mail]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://maas.mail.163.com/dashi-web-extend/html/proSignature.html?ftlId=1&name=Haisheng+Yu%28Johnson%29&uid=hsyu%40cfiec.net&iconUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fmail-online.nosdn.127.net%2Fsm50a1433bca9fb284d4265d35e9ed54d3.jpg&items=%5B%22%22%2C%22hsyu%40cfiec.net%22%2C%22%22%2C%22%22%2C%22%22%5D> 
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 签名由 网易邮箱大师 <https://mail.163.com/dashi 
>>>>>>>> /dlpro.html?from=mail81> 定制 On 3/23/2021 12:40，Dhruv 
>>>>>>>> Dhody<[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>> <mailto:[e-mail]> wrote：
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Paolo,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think we should highlight that we do not have
>>>>>>> visibility
>>>>>>>> inside the enterprises beyond the external-facing
>>>>>>>> website or
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> email and thus it
>>>>>>>> is also difficult to gauge the IPv6 deployments
>>>>>>> inside enterprises.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [PV] Ok. Probably here you refer to small-medium
>>>>>>> enterprises. For
>>>>>>>> large enterprises public data on the usage of IPv6
>>>>>>> can be retrieved
>>>>>>>> (Nalini, in copy, provided a good input on IPv6 in large 
>>>>>>>> organizations). We will better specify this point in
>>>>>>> the next
>>>>>>>> version of the draft.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I had this NIST data in mind - 
>>>>>>>> https://fedv6-deployment.antd.nist.gov/cgi-bin/generate-com
>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>> includes large enterprises and relies on DNS, mail,
>>>>>>> external
>>>>>>>> website. Also, see Eric's site - 
>>>>>>>> https://www.vyncke.org/ipv6status/detailed.php?country=in
>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks! Dhruv
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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