Re: [v6ops] How can one check the presence of IPv4aaS technologies? -- Re: draft-vf-v6ops-ipv6-deployment

[Alexandre Petrescu <[e-mail]>]

Le 30/03/2021 à 15:20, [e-mail] a écrit :
> Although there is  the word of "Service" in this term, it does not
> mean this is a marketing term, my understanding is that it only
> defines the role of remaining IPv4 traffic in IPv6-only network.

If it is an IPv6-only network then there is no remaining IPv4 traffic -
   neither on 'bare metal', nor encapsulated in IPv6.

But, I am open if there is another term (other than 'IPv6-only') that
designates a computer or a network where IPv4 is completely absent.

Alex


  Considering IPv4
> traffic will not vanish in short term, so IPv4aaS will stay long and
> be a major feature of IPv6-only network.
> 
> Chongfeng
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 
[e-mail]
> 
> *From:* Alexandre Petrescu <mailto:[e-mail]> 
> *Date:* 2021-03-29 22:06 *To:* v6ops <mailto:[e-mail]> 
> *Subject:* Re: [v6ops] How can one check the presence of IPv4aaS 
> technologies? -- Re: draft-vf-v6ops-ipv6-deployment I think we should
> first say what one means by 'IPv4aaS'. I think this term is very
> loosely defined technically. It might be a very good marketing term,
> and an excellent overall goal for developments of features on
> roadmaps. But I have some ideas about how to check what you ask. Le
> 29/03/2021 à 10:40, Lencse Gábor a écrit :
>> 
>> 24/03/2021 17:22 keltezéssel, Alexandre Petrescu írta:
>> 
>> [...]
>> 
>>> Up to now, looking through the configuration interface of my
> freebox at
>>> home I could not see the options that you mention (464XLAT,
>>> DSLITE, MAP-E, MAP-T, lw4o6).  One might say that they are there
> invisible, but
>>> I doubt that, I need a proof of it.  How can I check for
> presence of
>>> options 464XLAT, DSLITE, MAP-E, MAP-T or lw4o6?
>>> 
>> 
>> I can imagine two situations:
>> 
>> 1. The user can configure in the CPE, which IPv4aaS technology is
> to be
>> used. (Or at least it is displayed for the user without the
> opportunity
>> to change the settings.)
>> 
>> This is the trivial case.
>> 
>> 2. Even though one of the above mentioned IPv4aaS technologies is
> used,
>> the CPE hides it from the user.
>> 
>> Of course, all five IPv4aaS technologies try to imitate the
> situation of
>> carrier grade NAT for IPv4. The question is, whether the user can
> point
>> out the fact the an IPv4aaS technology is used, and possibly also 
>> determine its kind.
>> 
>> Now, again, we may distinguish two cases: - If the user can observe
>> the traffic on the outside (WAN)
> interface of
>> the CPE (e.g. using tcpdump, tshark, etc.), then it is quite easy. 
>> - If the user cannot do that, then it is really interesting.
>> 
>> Can anyone recommend a suitable method for the second case?
> One could check tables of IP addresses of DNS64 resolvers offered by 
> some operators to their respective users (but not to others).  Such
> a table is available for all operators in France, at regulator.  On
> page 57 of the pdf at this URL one can see such a table 
> https://en.arcep.fr/uploads/tx_gspublication/report-state-internet_2020-edition_250620-ENG.pdf
>
> 
If a provider provides a DNS64 resolver it is highly likely that end
> users might benefit from some features of the concept 'IPv4aaS'.
>> Do you know such properties of the user side behavior (e.g.
>> traffic pattern) of any of the 464XLAT, DSLITE, MAP-E, MAP-T or
>> lw4o6 technologies that could indicate their presence?
> That is an excellent question.  I think it is possible to write a 
> packet analyzer that looks at the interface of the end user and
> depending on the contents of the packets to determine a pattern
> telling whether or not 464XLAT is used. From these two things (tables
> of DNS64 resolvers, and packet analyzers), it might be possible to
> build web sites that not only reply to the question "what is my IP
> address" but also tell whether "IPv4aaS" is used or not. Also, right
> now a "what is my IP addreess" website replies my with my IP address,
> but can also tell whether I am behind a NAT or not. A similar logic
> could be used to tell whether I am behind a another sort of address
> translation. Alex
>> 
>> Gábor
>> 
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