Re: [v6ops] FW: Can you please review and comment on draft-xiao-v6ops-nd-deployment-guidelines

Gert Doering <gert@space.net> Sun, 24 October 2021 11:49 UTC

Return-Path: <gert@space.net>
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65DC43A0C5E for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 04:49:14 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=space.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qn0cmek0eN63 for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 04:49:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gatekeeper1-relay.space.net (gatekeeper1-relay.space.net [IPv6:2001:608:3:85::38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFF613A0C5A for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 04:49:07 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=space.net; i=@space.net; q=dns/txt; s=esa; t=1635076149; x=1666612149; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=z0k2WnNEFR4gyBRACapm60puJ3S6SwWaDZafCf6YK5g=; b=G4t6uNS1EnDfv1uCUu5JImBLXCNd5BkoYXITlzvK+CDWWjhmIHtTOyHV kATyQWssYz3e01ggglOPEBZndi2RstY84UgJmvMUd52+x8TsqmbBSLC0O iY7TuIMq2FcrVZeR4pR4iOXMcDHNLga4K7rLElgt2mJF6I/CQLYSInewL yNieb0TOIb8iyPldagXlloDU7qKHBX75XjC6aQEDYdKXPBZwGTwvFYzQD 2P7SRWvmC+FY6JOUlemuRkJRpX8UdhTSU5mDoeZfi8VDno6Eg7lbU9vxg XUSbNQjuP2yWTzeOlHnDlX4r2TMIs08b4Sow8uPi95ABGpBsCDn41BubI g==;
X-SpaceNet-SBRS: None
Received: from mobil.space.net ([195.30.115.67]) by gatekeeper1-relay.space.net with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 24 Oct 2021 10:07:50 +0200
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietf.org
Received: from mobil.space.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EDF242456 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 10:07:50 +0200 (CEST)
X-SpaceNet-Relay: true
X-SpaceNet-Relay: true
X-SpaceNet-Relay: true
Received: from moebius4.space.net (moebius4.space.net [IPv6:2001:608:2:2::251]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFCA640AD6; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 10:07:49 +0200 (CEST)
Received: by moebius4.space.net (Postfix, from userid 1007) id E91D310DDA5; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 10:07:49 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 10:07:49 +0200
From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Xipengxiao <xipengxiao@huawei.com>
Cc: "v6ops@ietf.org" <v6ops@ietf.org>, "gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com" <gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>
Message-ID: <YXUUVdN61Ks2od+/@Space.Net>
References: <5e866a598eab4d48bdcbe8b7d566866f@huawei.com> <a158b8aa-9507-e134-9b95-d0aacb63123c@gmail.com> <4e5d07b50df549b3965e02d61446a2ae@huawei.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <4e5d07b50df549b3965e02d61446a2ae@huawei.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/v7WZoPOWQIwG-IigQwede3__kg8>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] FW: Can you please review and comment on draft-xiao-v6ops-nd-deployment-guidelines
X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: v6ops discussion list <v6ops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/v6ops/>
List-Post: <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 11:49:14 -0000

Hi,

On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 07:26:12PM +0000, Xipengxiao wrote:
> > 2. I expect a lot of objections to UPPH. It really is a ridiculous 
> > waste of address space, unless we can reduce the subnet size with a 
> > prefix greater than /64, and that seems very difficult in the IETF.
> 
> [XX] While I acknowledge that giving each host a /64 may seem wasteful, 
> in reality it may not be so bad, for 2 reasons (1) I heard that RIR will 
> give /29 to an applicant without requiring special justification. This 
> will provide 2**35=32 billion /64's - more than enough I would think 

The /29 is intended to number many individual customers.  ISPs are giving
/56s out of this to "SOHO" customers, and /48s to "business customers".

You can't assume that these are all free to be burned in arbitrary numbers 
of /64s on wifi deployments.

(I, for one, will never ever deploy technology that will require me
to allocate something like a /54 to a wifi network, just to be able
to serve 1000 mobile clients [/54 = 2^10 = 1024 /64s] - which is not 
even very large for a corp wifi)

> (2) We are giving a /64 to each mobile phone.  If we can afford
> that in this scenario (with by far the largest number of hosts),
> we should be able to afford that in other scenarios (with smaller
> number of hosts).  Do you agree?

This is totally not comparable, as there are many layers of address
not involved here.  Mobile ISPs get the /29 "all for themselves",
and the way stuff attaches to the mobile network is way different
from the way wifi segments are attached to normal building networks.


(I like the idea of being able to delegate a /96 with DHCPv6-PD to
each device, to appease Lorenzo and finally be done with the everlasting
DHCPv6 vs. Android discussion - but the numbers for /64 are really
not working out)

Gert Doering
        -- with some experience in address space & vs. aggregation math
-- 
have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?

SpaceNet AG                      Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14        Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann
D-80807 Muenchen                 HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen)
Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444         USt-IdNr.: DE813185279