Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-transition-comparison-00.txt

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[e-mail]>]

Mmm ... I don't think it was a secret!

If you're working on actual deployments, you need to configure the features you want to enable in the carrier config files, and then Apple publish it. Pretty standard Apple procedure. Alternatively, you can also use the Apple Mobile Configurator, for earlier testing, etc.

Many operators have been using this for about 3 years already. I don't recall right now the iOS version number but was 2017-2018. I believe I've mention this already other times in v6ops.

Because that happened several years ago, I don't think it should be necessary to include what OS versions, not just for Apple, for any OS, however I'm happy to have it if the WG believes so.

I got now your point about incoming connections examples/behavior. We will have some text in the next version.

I believe most of the carriers that use CGN, don't allow incoming connection. If you need that, you pay an alternative service and then you get a "persistent" IPv4.

The problem of CGN is still that if you have Sony PlayStation gamers, the IPv4 addresses in the CGN get into the blacklist forever, so you need to rotate all the IPv4 addresses in the CGNs, until you finish them. Then you go to the market and pay for more transfers, etc. Clearly it doesn't make sense. It is smarter to not install CGNs and instead directly pay for the transfers now, before price keeps going up.


Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 16/4/21 15:05, "v6ops en nombre de Vasilenko Eduard" <[e-mail] en nombre de [e-mail]> escribió:

    Hi Jordi,
    You did bring the news about iOS that is a big secret for the community. What is the iOS version that supports CLAT?
    Then it is mandatory to include such important information in the draft.

    I am not so interested in any specific protocol. We have too many.
    I am interested in the use case: "to initiate a connection from the outside to an IPv4 server that is behind translation solution".
    We could assume that port forwarding on the CPE subscriber could provision himself (probably port 80). But the CPE should receive incoming TCP session from the internet.
    It would probably bring onto the discussion PCP (for some translation technologies), but if not - I would not be much disappointed.
    By the way, you could dispute the use case then the question is closed.
    I now carriers where all subscribers do receive public IPv4 even now.
    But I know Carriers that have a shortage of public IPv4 for CGNAT pools.
    Of course, you could send them to buy IPv4 on the open market because NAT connection initiated in opposite direction is additional complexity.
    You choose.

    Eduard
    -----Original Message-----
    From: v6ops [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
    Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 3:20 PM
    To: [e-mail]
    Subject: Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-transition-comparison-00.txt

    Hi Eduard,

    I think I can provide some light on this.

    iOS was not supporting CLAT since a few years ago, which was a problem for using 464XLAT in tethering, but this is no longer true. Thanks to the push from several operators Apple finally implemented CLAT, which is only needed for the tethering, because the "similar" solution to bump-in-the-host resolve the problem for the apps in the iOS device. Further to that, this is supported because Apple took a very good decision long time ago (2016 I believe), to only allow in the AppStore apps that work in IPv6-only, so that's why the CLAT is not need for the iOS device itself.

    Having no need for the CLAT to be enabled means lower battery consumption, and of course, lower CPU cost and delay if the other end is also using IPv6, so not NAT at all.

    We have indeed some mentions about PCP and EAM in the text, not sure what you will like to see in the document. Could you please elaborate a bit more? An specific section about that or?

    Regards,
    Jordi
    @jordipalet



    El 16/4/21 14:03, "v6ops en nombre de Vasilenko Eduard" <[e-mail] en nombre de [e-mail]> escribió:

        Hi all,
        iOS does not support 464XLAT/CLAT.
        They do use RFC 6535 (Bump in the host) instead.
        It is probably an important fact for 4.4.2

        I am not sure that it is needed here. But there is the story of how to initiate a NAT connection in the opposite direction.
        PCP (RFC 7225, RFC 6887), STUN (RFC 5389), EAM (RFC 7757), public IP allocation on CGNAT.
        Different translation technologies have different compatibility and different tools for how to punch a hole in the opposite direction.
        Some FBBs have a real shortage of public IPv4 to play with this.

        It is a little strange that PCP (RFC 7225) has not been mentioned at all.

        Eduard
        -----Original Message-----
        From: v6ops [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of [e-mail]
        Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 11:16 PM
        To: [e-mail]
        Cc: [e-mail]
        Subject: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-transition-comparison-00.txt


        A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
        This draft is a work item of the IPv6 Operations WG of the IETF.

                Title           : Pros and Cons of IPv6 Transition Technologies for IPv4aaS
                Authors         : Gabor Lencse
                                  Jordi Palet Martinez
                                  Lee Howard
                                  Richard Patterson
                                  Ian Farrer
        	Filename        : draft-ietf-v6ops-transition-comparison-00.txt
        	Pages           : 30
        	Date            : 2021-04-15

        Abstract:
           Several IPv6 transition technologies have been developed to provide
           customers with IPv4-as-a-Service (IPv4aaS) for ISPs with an IPv6-only
           access and/or core network.  All these technologies have their
           advantages and disadvantages, and depending on existing topology,
           skills, strategy and other preferences, one of these technologies may
           be the most appropriate solution for a network operator.

           This document examines the five most prominent IPv4aaS technologies
           considering a number of different aspects to provide network
           operators with an easy to use reference to assist in selecting the
           technology that best suits their needs.


        The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
        https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-v6ops-transition-comparison/

        There are also htmlized versions available at:
        https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-transition-comparison-00
        https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-transition-comparison-00


        Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

        Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
        ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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Are you ready for the new Internet ?
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This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.